Hi, this is Zoe.

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It really helps other people find us. Welcome to Wired's Uncanny Valley. I'm Wired's director of business and industry,

Zoe Schiffer. Today on the show, an in-depth interview with a former Doge staffer.

Our colleague, Vittoria Elliott, sat down with Sahil Lavinia, who used to work as part of

Elon Musk's so-called Department of Government Efficiency before he was fired for speaking out

about his experience. Lavinia shared how his tenure at the Department of Veterans Affairs was

marked by a lack of transparency from Doge leadership and chaotic day-to-day operations.

His statements come at a time when Doge is in a moment of transition, but the Doge ideology

and Doge projects have become fused with the larger Trump administration.

Victoria Elliott, senior writer at Wired, is here to tell us more.

Welcome to this show, Victoria.

Thanks so much for having me,

Zoe. Votria, let's start by telling listeners who Sahil is. We know he's a former Doge staffer,

but who is he outside of the organization and how exactly did he end up joining the Doge ranks at the VA?

Yeah, so Sail is the founder of a startup called Gumroad,

and you can sort of think of it like a sort of fusion of Etsy and Patreon.

It's a place for digital creatives to sell their work.

And he has been working on that for the better part of a decade.

...