This is Fresh Air. I'm Tanya Mosley, and my guest today is author Brittany Newell, who loves to write about the secret worlds of others, the things people do, she says, that make their lives more bearable.

Her newest novel, Softcore, takes the reader into San Francisco's underworld of dive bar, strip clubs, and BDSM Dungeons, where tech bros, executives, and

outcasts live out their fantasies. Ruth, the protagonist, is a stripper who unravels when her

ex-boyfriend, a ketamine dealer, disappears. Ruth, known by her stripper name, Baby Blue, starts working

as a professional dominatrix where she tries to fulfill the deepest desires of her clients, who mostly want to talk to her about how lonely they are and the grief they carry.

Brittany Newell draws from personal experience. In addition to being a writer, she is also a professional dominatrix.

A graduate of Stanford University, she studied comparative literature and gender studies and wrote her debut novel, Ula, in 2017, when she was 21 years old.

It's been described as the millennial Lolita.

Newell has written for the New York Times, Joyland and Playgirl.

She and her wife run a monthly drag and dance party called Angels at Aunt Charlie's Lounge, which is one of San Francisco's oldest queer bars. Now, before Brittany and I get into our conversation, I want to warn you that this is an adult conversation, not appropriate for children.

We won't be discussing sex in an explicit way, but this is an adult conversation with adult themes and topics including sex work.

With that, Brittany Newell, welcome to fresh air.

Hi, thank you for having me.

I'm over the moon.

Yes, well, thank you for being here. I really enjoyed your book. It was such a good read. And I want to know, first off, how much of softcore is fiction and how much of it is based on real life? Oh, yeah, that's the million dollar question. I have seen some early reviewers saying that it's a memoir, which is definitely

not. I want that to be clear, but I think it's a completely valid question. And I catch myself

doing it as a reader, too, like the conflation of the main character with the author. And so, of course, I've thought about this a lot and been asked this a lot.

And I think the ways that it is non-fictional are sort of subtler than one might realize.

Like, I think the sensory details of my life and the characteristics of the people

that I'm close to and that I've spent a lot of time noticing and observing, I think those are always

the things that end up making their way into a book, which is sort of like, I always say like the tax of dating or loving

or befriending a writer is that all of these sort of like very specific, intimate, sometimes

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