Looking back, I think that there have been two great conversions in my life.

The first, when I was 18, 19 years old, right around in that season, practically a street

kid living in the drug culture had a radical encounter with the living God through Jesus.

And it utterly changed my life. It completely, it was everything I was looking for. I wasn't

raised in a religion, I wasn't looking for a religion, I wasn't looking for a church,

I was looking for answers, and I was really looking for rescue, for forgiveness, for help,

and it was phenomenal. It was absolutely life-changing to come into a relationship with Jesus.

And the second great conversion in my life took place many years later, early in my 30s,

when something else came to me, and it was the discovery that the heart matters, that Christianity,

God, faith, salvation, all of that spirituality cares deeply about the heart. And, thank goodness,

combined with that, the wardrobe door I walked through in this second conversion was that

the gospel is a gospel of restoration. Welcome back to the Wild at Heart podcast.

John and Stacey in the studio here, and as you know, we have been circling back in previous

times together to the centrality of the heart about how much our humanity matters,

about what flows from our heart and how central it is to the heart of God, into the kingdom.

Yeah, you remember, you remember we were in our 30s and needed some counseling and began reading,

you know, George McDonald and CS Lewis, and oh, golly, I'm not going to do justice to all the

people that were helpful to us then, but therapists and Liam Payne and, oh my. Larry Crab,

Dan Allender. Gordon Dolby and people were riding on the healing of the heart, riding on the

recovery of heart. And it was absolutely wonderful. And it couldn't have come at better timing.

I think when a person hits their 30s, as you begin to make that transition out of the 20s

into the 30s, you begin to deal with your story. Yes, exactly. And you just see it. We're seeing

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