It's clear from this conversation, clear from the work I do every single day, that there is a greater need for international cooperation because as cybercrime escalates, it's clearly borderless and it clearly requires both the public sector and the private sector to work on the problem.

Welcome to patching the system, a special podcast for the global stage series,

a partnership between GZERMedia and Microsoft. I'm Ali Wine, a senior analyst at Eurasia Group.

Throughout this series, we're highlighting the work of the Cybersecurity Tech Accord,

a public commitment from more than 150 global technology companies dedicated to creating a safer cyber world for all of us. And today, in our final installment of this podcast, we'll talk a little

bit more about protecting businesses, governments, and citizens from cybercrime well into the future.

Now, technology moves fast, and certainly in these past two years of the pandemic, we've seen our

reliance on it grow by leaps and bounds. Unfortunately, though, cybercrime is also growing and evolving.

And while there are treaties and agreements to support international cooperation in combating

cybercrime, there are also ongoing negotiations over a new cybercrime treaty at the UN.

Some governments claim that such a comprehensive treaty is necessary, while others, as well

as industry and civil society groups, raise concerns about how such a treaty might affect

rights and freedoms we have come to expect online.

My guest today is Amy Hogan-Burney, general manager of Microsoft's Digital Crimes Unit.

Amy, welcome.

Thank you. I'm pleased to be here today.

I'm just going to dive right in.

So for those who aren't deeply working in this space, this cyberspace, as it were, on a daily basis, as you do, why don't we just start with some basic definitions?

So how do you define cybercriminals and how do you differentiate them from other kinds of bad actors on the Internet?

So maybe just beginning with some semantics and some definitions for our audience.

Sure. It's a great question. Like really, what is cybercrime?

I mean, I think the answer is generally that cybercrime is using a computer to illegally access

...