From the ACLU, this is at Liberty.

I'm Emerson Sykes, a staff attorney here at the ACLU and your host.

One of the things that's most difficult about the COVID-19 pandemic is that it's so difficult to know what's coming next.

The governor of New York has said

that we're likely past the peak of the outbreak here, and some states have already begun to reopen.

But what will it take to keep us safe and prevent new spikes in infection? Many experts say that we

will not be out of the woods until there's a vaccine. But how would a national vaccination plan work?

At the same time, technological solutions are being proposed, especially related to contact

tracing, the process by which public health officials can map and anticipate the spread of a virus.

But technological solutions raise a whole host of questions of their own regarding privacy

and civil liberties.

Today, we're joined by Professor Michelle Goodwin, the founding director of the Center for Biotechnology

and Global Health Policy at the University of California Irvine School of Law, and ACLU attorney

Jennifer Granik, who leads our work on surveillance and cybersecurity.

Thank you both very much for joining us. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you.

It's a pleasure to be with you. First, we are obviously recording this in the midst of the

COVID pandemic. We're all sheltering at home. How are you guys doing? I'm doing fine. My family's

doing fine. During this time, I had anticipated in part being in the

Netherlands, which is where my daughter is studying and doing a PhD right now, but she's sheltering in

place there where there is universal health care and people are being tested. And so she's in very good

shape. Glad to hear it. Glad to hear it. I'm here in San

Francisco. I feel very lucky because our weather is beautiful and we are still allowed outside for

...