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SpyCast

A CIA Psychologist on the Minds of World Leaders, Pt. 2 with Dr. Ursula Wilder

SpyCast

SpyCast

News, Education, History

4.41.6K Ratings

🗓️ 27 February 2024

⏱️ 61 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Summary Dr. Ursula Wilder (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the intersections between psychology and intelligence. Ursula is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience working at the Central Intelligence Agency. What You’ll Learn Intelligence How psychology can be useful to national security Historical examples of leadership analysis Leadership personality assessments & the Cuban Missile Crisis Psychoanalytic theory and espionage Reflections Human nature throughout history History repeating itself And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “Together, these documents are quite powerful. The psych assessments are very, very carefully, tightly held and are classified at a high level. Every intelligence officer has this fantasy about seeing the file that's kept on them by the opponents.” – Dr. Ursula Wilder. Resources SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023) The North Korean Defector with Former DPRK Agent Kim, Hyun Woo (2023) SPY@20 – “The Spy of the Century” with Curators Alexis and Andrew on Kim Philby (2022) “How Spies Think” – 10 Lessons in Intelligence with Sir David Omand (2020) *Beginner Resources* What is Psychoanalysis? Institute of Psychoanalysis, YouTube (2011) [3 min. video] Psychologists in the CIA, American Psychological Association (2002) [Short article] 7 Reasons to Study Psychology, University of Toronto (n.d.) [Short article] DEEPER DIVE Books Freud and Beyond, S. A. Mitchell (Basic Books, 2016) Narcissism and Politics: Dreams of Glory, J. M. Post (Cambridge University Press, 2014) The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements, E. Hoffer (Harper Perennial Modern Classics, 2010) Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln, D. K. Goodwin (Simon & Schuster, 2004) Leaders, Fools, and Impostors: Essays on the Psychology of Leadership, M. F. R. Kets de Vries (iUniverse, 2003) Primary Sources Charles de Gaulle to Pamela Digby Churchill (1942) Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat (1940) Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant (1885) Gettysburg Address (1863) House Divided Speech (1858) Excerpt on Cleopatra from Plutarch's Life of Julius Caesar (ca. 2nd century AD) Plutarch’s The Life of Alexander (ca. 2nd century AD) Appian’s The Civil Wars (ca. 2nd century AD) Virgil’s The Aeneid (19 B.C.E) *Wildcard Resource* On Dreams by Sigmund Freud (1901) In this simplified version of the father of psychoanalysis’ seminal book The Interpretation of Dreams, you can get a small taste for Freudian philosophy. Freud believed that dreams were a reflection of the subconscious mind and that studying a person’s dreams can elucidate their inner wants and needs. What are your dreams telling you? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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dot com slash network security platform.

0:44.0

Listening to a podcast, a, take a break from the outside world and spending some time alone

0:56.0

well there's none of that in a celebrity big brother house

0:58.0

no take a break from the outside world because there is no outside world and no spending time alone because

1:05.4

the cameras are always rolling. Celebrity living together for three weeks under

1:10.6

one roof. There's one place they can't hide. Celebrity Big Brother, live, Fourth

1:16.8

of March on I TV1 and I TVX. Welcome to SpyCast, the

1:27.0

Spycast, the official podcast of the International Spy Museum.

1:31.0

I'm Erin Dietrich and your host is Dr. Andrew Hammond.

1:35.0

Each week we explore some aspect of the past, present, or future of intelligence and

1:39.8

espionage. If you enjoy the show, please consider leaving us a five-star review so other

1:44.8

listeners can find us. Coming up next on Spycast. His first school

1:50.1

experience he was beaten, um, severely, bruises all over his back and legs, and his

1:56.6

nurse finally showed it to his mother who just quietly moved him to another school.

2:00.4

But you think of a five-year-old going through that and yet he became Churchill. This week's episode with CIA Clinical Psychologist Dr Ursula Wilder.

2:18.0

We enjoyed this interview so much we just couldn't cut it down into one episode.

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