Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Manliness

Podcast after 40 years working as a carpenter, and not just any carpenter, but one who's often considered the best in New York and who executes some of the country's most elaborate, expensive and challenging projects, Mark Ellison has filled hundreds of notebooks with drawings of his plans.

He's also made plenty of observations about the nature of work, craft, and doing a good job at whatever you pursue.

Mark is the author of Building, a carpenter's notes on life and the

art of good work. And today on the show, he shares some of the lessons he's learned over his

career in high-end construction, including those that center on the less romantic

aspects of being a carpenter. We discuss the comparative importance of will, talent,

and interest in learning the craft. The challenge is not only of

construction, but managing personalities, mistakes, and expectations,

why speed is essential for successful craftsmen and have the principles that make for a master builder carry over into other pursuits.

After the show's over, check out our show notes at Awim. builder, carryover, and other pursuits.

After the show's over, check at, welcome to the show.

All right, Mark Ellison, welcome to the show.

Plea to be here.

So you are a carpenter who specializes in building and remodeling lavish homes for wealthy clients in New York City.

Did you start off your young life with a goal of doing what you're doing now or did you kind of fall into this?

I'm much more fell into it than did it intentionally. The only thing I knew as a young man

was that I didn't want to do most of the jobs that I saw people around me doing.

I wasn't very interested in it.

I mean, I spent a lot of time in the woods as a kid and I considered coming like a forest ranger or a guide.

But I mean, those are, I'm not a solitary person and those are solitary pursuits.

And I just happened to me, I talked about it in the book I

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