It's the Bayon Lair show on WNYC. Good morning again, everyone. It's been two years since

Governor Kathy Hocal signed the Less Is More Act, which modifies the standard of evidence

and certain other procedures when determining whether to end the community supervision of

a person on parole. The website LessisMore.org reports that more than 5,000 people are incarcerated

in the state's jails and prisons for non-criminal, technical violations of parole, like missing

curfew or an appointment with a parole officer. Up until 2021, New York State incarcerated

more people for parole violations than any other place in the country according to the

governor. Our next guest makes the case to abolish parole and probation, saying it does

not positively impact incarceration or crime rates. And no, he's not an activist, at least

not technically. Vincent Seraldi was the commissioner of the New York City Department of Probation

from 2010 to 2014 and was appointed commissioner of the city's Department of Corrections in

2021, that is, he ran Rikers as a reformer at the end of the Diplosio era. Now, he's secretary

of the Department of Juvenile Services in Maryland, and he's the author of a new book titled

Mass Supervision, Probation, Parole, and the Illusion of Safety and Freedom, and he joins

us now. Vincent Seraldi, always good to have you on. Welcome back to WNYC.

Thanks for having me on again, Brian.

Before we get into the book, and I just ask if you heard that lead story in Michael Hill's

newscast just now, as former correction commissioner about live insects, founded mass potatoes

at Rikers, I'm just curious if, to your knowledge, that would reflect anything systemic.

You know, things were so systemically awful at Rikers for my brief seven months there,

that it could be, it could be idiosyncratic. But, you know, I think the folks that are advocating

for the closure of that awful place, and for a federal takeover are on the right track.

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