In our fast-paced world, how can we cultivate a sense of wonder and open ourselves to the possibility of joy, even amidst life's inevitable hardships? In this episode, we're joined by Christian Wiman as we continue our chapter-by-chapter exploration of Falling Upward with Chapter 10: "A Bright Sadness." In this conversation with Christian Wiman, we explore how suffering and joy can coexist and transform us through a poetic experience of Christianity. Before we dive in to the interview with Christian, CAC staff catch up with Richard at his hermitage to hear his reflections on the tenth chapter a decade after he originally wrote it. Christian Wiman is the author, editor, or translator of more than a dozen books of poetry and prose, including two memoirs, My Bright Abyss: Meditation of a Modern Believer and He Held Radical Light: The Art of Faith, the Faith of Art; Every Riven Thing, winner of the Ambassador Book Award; Once in the West, a National Book Critics Circle Award finalist; and Survival Is a Style―all published by FSG. He teaches religion and literature at the Yale Institute of Sacred Music and at Yale Divinity School. Resources: A PDF of the transcript for this episode is available here. Grab a copy of the newly revised version of Falling Upward, with a new foreword by Brené Brown here. Check out Christian Wiman's latest book, Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair here. We also reference his book, My Bright Abyss. You can find that here. Connect with us: Have a question or thought about this season that you'd like to share with us? Email us: podcasts@cac.org Send us a voicemail here: http://www.cac.org/voicemail