Hello. Today is a special day. We're having a good interview with Ed Dutton, who just completed a book about the life of the imminent scientist James Dewey Watson.

Watson, in case you don't know, discovered the structure of DNA, figured out that it was a double helix he was undoubtedly a genius the book is something of a

biography but it's much more than that because it is interspersed with incredible insights about

the nature of genius about how the human mind works, different personality types, differences between different

groups and their ability to create geniuses. And I think your interest in Watson came from the fact

that he was, according to you, one of the first imminent people to be properly cancelled in 2007, because of some controversial

remarks he made about the differences in IQ between different racial groups and how these impact

development and economic progress. And then you went on, I thought, very astutely, to explain why he was absolutely

correct to have said the things that he said. But that didn't stop him being cancelled,

because as you rightly point out, he was a blasphemer against the woke religion.

But the interesting thing is, thank you for having me on for us, and I hope it's a good interview.

I can't guarantee that.

But the particularly interesting thing is, I think it was in 2007, which is when he said, in private,

sort of what he saw as a semi-private conversation, with a journalist called Charlotte Hunt Grubb, who he had brought, who was a journalist for the Sunday Times,

but who had been staying with him in his house in Cold Spring Harbour, and who was almost

like a sort of a foster child almost.

And she repeated what he'd said about how well the assumptions about the future of Africa is that they're the same as us in terms of intelligence, but all the research tells us, well, not really.

And for this, yeah, he was the, this was making a clear point, which is that there is a new regime in town, and this is wokeness.

And under this, or proto-wokenokeness and under this or proto wokeness and under this regime

Not even the most one of the most eminent men alive is safe. Yes, it's making a clear point this man will be punished for

Blaspheming as you say against the dogmas of wokeness. And indeed, also,

for what part of the dog was of wokeners is that feelings and hurting people's feelings

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