Hello and welcome to Whistle Stop a podcast of the presidency. I'm John Dickerson of CBS this morning.

In early April 1995, two gray-haired baby boomers of intemperate habits, large appetites, and ideological fervor tempered by pragmatic ambition,

wrapped their mitts around a big question in American life. What good is government? One respondent to this question was the President of

the United States, Bill Clinton. The other was the Speaker of the House, Newt Gingrich. Each man fancied himself a transformational figure,

and so when Newsweek magazine put this puzzler before them, they lunged at the chance to give

sweeping answers that would be one day the guideline for artisans, chisling their words into the

soft marble of monuments erected in their honor.

Bill Clinton cited government's role in desegregating schools and helping the poor.

That's what government was for.

That's what had inspired him to get into public service.

The difference between the Republicans and me, said the president,

is that I still believe that the federal government

has an affirmative responsibility to help people to make the most of their own lives.

Newt Gingrich, the Speaker of the House, agreed the government was useful.

Government does some things very well, said the Speaker.

It defends the nation. It keeps the peace.

It freed the slaves. It builds useful things like the Panama Canal and enables valuable research,

like discovering the cure for polio. It can shape market forces, creating the right incentives for

saving or investing. But, Gingrich went on to a point.

He argued that the federal welfare state had moved assistance too far from those who needed it.

This led to bureaucracy and inefficiency.

He wanted to move things to the local level and encourage volunteerism,

...