Hello, Owen Jones, welcome to the podcast. Today we're speaking to the extremely esteemed

author Michael Dures, who is written on all sorts, like a big short, I'm sure you all

know that. He's just written a absolutely critical

book about the pandemic. It's called The Premonition, a pandemic story. We have a lot to talk

about and he is just a beautiful and insightful writer, wherever you stand. Do support us using

Patreon or the support function if you're able to do so. Please leave us five stars, that

costs nothing and leave a review to encourage others to listen to the podcast and with that

please enjoy the podcast. We are joined by the one, the only Michael Lewis,

actually, thank you very much, who is I'm just saying before we started filming, just it's

incredible that he turns out these masterpieces. I know I just look like I'm just trying to flat

my guess, but I'm not. He's masterpiece after masterpiece irritating as well from an author's

perspective. I hope you feel happy with yourself Michael. He's a smug. The smug Michael Lewis

with his masterpiece, his masterpieces, which he just drills out. Yeah, I mean, the last

time I saw you in conversation talking about your last book, one of the things has happened

since then. The world has collapsed for a start and that's of course what your book is about,

The Premonition, which is just an incredible startling book and that's hard to do because so many

books were going to be written about this period of time and it was going to be very difficult

to write something which I think lands as much of a punch as this one managed. So welcome.

What I'm going to do, okay, just to kind of kick off the whole point of the Premonition,

I suppose what happened to be it's fair to say with a lot of Democrats and a lot of Trump's

opponents is it all became about big bad Trump who was such a pantomime villain quite easy to do

and there was a sense of he was a year zero when he became president and before that,

...