3. Yes. Yes. Are we alive? Not yet.

Not yet.

Pause. Hold. You too. Not yet.

pause. Hold YouTube

Some sort of a struggle. Yeah, we're allowed. Okay. How are you? You're Wheeler Walker Jr. fan I see? Um, I, maybe I will be.

You will? You never heard of him before?

I hadn't. I confess.

That's okay.

Um, so first of all, thank you. thanks for doing this, appreciate it.

Yeah, no problem.

What is it like?

I mean, I guess this is the best way to get this started.

What is it like being a person that grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church for a person on the outside for me

When I think of that I think of like this crazy hateful angry environment filled with like really mean people that say horrible things

about gay people and all sorts of other folks, but I meet you and you're super nice.

You seem so normal.

That is the conundrum. So, I mean a lot of the things, the words that you just used to describe

the church, that's definitely not how I experienced it growing up for the most part. I mean my family outside of when they're not on the picket line they're

I mean incredibly kind and gentle and and compassionate and in I think the biggest misconception about the church is that they're motivated by hatred.

And in their eyes, it's the definition of loving.

We really thought we were doing, what we were doing was loving our neighbor

so in the first time that phrase appears in the Bible it's in the context of when you

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