4.6 • 732 Ratings
🗓️ 3 November 2025
⏱️ 40 minutes
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| 0:00.0 | For exclusive interviews, bonus episodes, ad-free listening, early access to series, |
| 0:09.0 | first look at live show tickets, a weekly newsletter, and discounted books, |
| 0:13.1 | join the Declassified Club at the rest is classified.com. |
| 0:17.3 | Music Welcome to the rest is classified. |
| 0:25.6 | I'm Gordon Carrera and I'm David McCloskey. |
| 0:28.6 | David, have you ever wondered if your phone might be spying on you? |
| 0:32.6 | I have occasionally wondered if my phone is spying on me, Gordon. |
| 0:35.6 | I would say more so after reading the |
| 0:38.9 | outline that you put together for the next few episodes for the story we're going to talk about, |
| 0:43.2 | which is all about technology being rigged to spy on its users, on the poor people who have paid |
| 0:50.8 | for it. And it makes me think that like like so many of these episodes that we do, |
| 0:56.2 | that deal with the intersection of spying and technology, that we should all get rid of our phones |
| 1:03.2 | and computers and put the tinfoil hats on and shut the doors and disconnect. And hide. Yeah, I think there's something to that because if you are already a little bit |
| 1:14.3 | worried about your tech, then this episode and the next one might get you even more worried. |
| 1:20.5 | Because, yeah, tech companies are always kind of promising they will offer you security |
| 1:25.3 | from your phone and your messaging. |
| 1:28.0 | But what if a spy agency actually secretly owned the company that made the devices that |
| 1:35.4 | promised you security? |
| 1:37.3 | I mean, that is the slightly crazy story we're telling today. |
| 1:41.1 | The story of a company called Crypto AG, and the way and the crazy |
| 1:46.4 | operation used to effectively spy on all its customers. |
| 1:50.9 | We did the series on Oleg Gordievsky, and I think agreed that he was maybe the most |
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