If you want access to bonus episodes reading lists for every series of empire, a chat community,

discounts for all the books mentioned in the week's podcast, add free listening and a weekly

newsletter, sign up to Empire Club at

W.

W. Empire pod UK.com. Hello and me, Empire with me Anita Arnan and me William Dremport.

And you know what we are blessed because we have Anthony Beaver with us again he left us on

quite the cliffhanger you're bursting to tell an Antibiva story. You got in there last time.

Is it jealousy for my mobile phone ring two?

Your mobile phone story definitely one up me. I have a little story too and I should tell it that when I first decided I wanted to write a history book,

white moguls, I rang up Anthony and said how do you go about writing these bloody books and I got a little tutorial I went round to

Fulham to his house got taken to his study and he showed me and I have

exhibit A I'm sadly this is a podcast so none of you can see but Anita can I can a card

index and he had a bag of card indexes and he showed he had one box for the people

in his book and one box for the places and all the other systems that he had to write his books and I have

aped the beaver system ever since and to this day I use antiquated card indexes.

Can I just say that I got the card index thing from you?

So it is basically the fever relay race through this.

It's a terrible case of literary pox.

Well, yes, indeed, I've seen in COVID, yes, it was definitely,

it's a COVID, but funny enough, I've been asked to a few what so-called

masterclasses on the structure and marshalling of material from archives and all the rest of it

to make it easier for particularly PhD students or whatever to get the

...