885: Bless This Mess
This American Life
This American Life
4.5 • 91.3K Ratings
🗓️ 12 April 2026
⏱️ 60 minutes
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Summary
At a time when the U.S. government is trying to make American history tidier, we try to learn from the mess. Including the untold, messy story of Paul and Essie Robeson.
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- Prologue: Guest Host Emanuele Berry talks to Nichole Hill about the Black movie characters Nichole was curious about as a child. (7 minutes)
- Act One: A giant of the Harlem Renaissance, Paul Robeson was the most famous American of his day. Until he wasn’t. Nichole Hill tells the messy, complicated story of Paul and his wife, Essie Robeson. (38 minutes)
- Act Two: In 1865, a formerly enslaved man named Jourdan Anderson received a letter from his former enslaver, asking Jourdan to return to the plantation and work. Actor Laurence Fishburne reads Jourdan’s response.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | From WBEZ Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Emmanuel Barry sitting in for Ira Glass. |
| 0:07.1 | As a middle schooler, there was always one channel I wanted to watch, TCM, the Turner Classic Movie Channel, an entire channel dedicated to old movies from Hollywood's Golden Age. |
| 0:18.5 | I loved these films. The Lady Eve, on the town, Mr. Smith goes to |
| 0:22.8 | Washington. Shout out to my boy, Jimmy Stewart. I was fascinated by the dramatics, the over-the-top |
| 0:28.8 | slaps, the sultry looks, the glamorous makeup and hairstyles. To my delight, I recently learned that I was |
| 0:35.8 | not the only black middle schooler spending her spare time glued to this channel. |
| 0:40.7 | Nicole Hill was also sad. |
| 0:42.7 | Anything with Betty Davis, I was like, her eyes are so big and she's so bad. |
| 0:47.1 | And I, like, need to watch everything that she does. |
| 0:51.5 | Marlon Brando was my first really big crush, and guys and dolls was my obsession. |
| 0:59.7 | And I used to, like, every Friday night, God bless my mom and my aunt, I would invite them up to my |
| 1:06.2 | room, and we would do a viewing of guys and dolls like every single Friday. |
| 1:12.9 | And I would share new facts that I had learned about it. |
| 1:16.8 | Like what? |
| 1:17.9 | Okay, so I mean, this is like a very basic fact. |
| 1:20.3 | But Marlon Brando and Frank Sinatra hated each other. |
| 1:24.7 | And there's this scene where Frank Sinatra has to eat cheesecake and he |
| 1:28.6 | really hates cheesecake. And so Marlon Brando keeps messing up the scene so that Frank Sinatra has to |
| 1:34.5 | keep eating the cheesecake. And I was like, they are so dramatic. Oh my God, the behind the scenes. |
| 1:43.4 | Whenever I talk with Nicole, she always has some |
| 1:45.8 | fact like this. You mentioned some historical figure, an actor, heck, even a mutual friend, |
| 1:51.3 | and she'll tell you some obscure detail that you've never heard before. She's always clocking |
... |
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