Hey, everybody. We've got a great one today, you know, for a change. Frank Four, who's been with me before. Frank is a friend of mine, and I also believe a national treasure. One of the founders of Slate, great journalist, writes now a lot of cover stories for Atlantic

Monthly, probably did the definitive piece on Manafort a while back. He's also been very much

on the forward edge of talking about these, well, these monopolies like Google and, uh, Amazon and, and Facebook.

Today, that's what we're going to talk about. He wrote a book, The World Without Mind,

the existential threat of big tech. He wrote this in 2017, very influential book, very

influential to me. I was in the Senate then and basically called for antitrust

action against those companies. And Frank and I have had kind of an ongoing discussion on

Facebook too. Today, that's what he's talking about. And he is the most articulate explainer.

And you see how inarticulate I am.

Did I just say that?

He's the most articulate explainer.

Wow.

Okay.

Anyway, he, you're going to really love this.

I'm going to just play now just a little clip from it, which says a lot.

So here, this is a clip that you'll hear again later in the show.

I think one of the things that is also at the core of everything we've talked about

and is, I think, the problem that the

essence of Facebook is that there's this amorality to the way that it approaches the world.

It's possible to be a believer in free speech and also have an ethics that guides your practice, But there's just kind of zero ethic in this company. And that's

one of the, I think, big revelations that we now have a trove, not just of their research, but of the

internal company message boards. And there are good people who work at Facebook and they were troubled by what

...