#827: Pablos Holman — One of The Scariest Hackers I’ve Ever Met

The Tim Ferriss Show

Tim Ferriss: Bestselling Author, Human Guinea Pig

Tools Of Titans, Lifestyle Design, Business, Tim Ferriss, Timothy Ferriss Show, Startups, Longform Interviews, Productivity, The 4-hour Workweek, Timothy Ferriss, Tim Ferris, The Tim Ferriss Show, Entrepreneurship

4.6 • 17.7K Ratings

🗓️ 16 September 2025

⏱️ 152 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Pablos Holman is a hacker and inventor and the author of Deep Future: Creating Technology that Matters, the indispensable guide to deep tech. Previously, Pablos worked on spaceships at Blue Origin and helped build The Intellectual Ventures Lab to invent a wide variety of breakthroughs. Pablos also hosts the Deep Future Podcast and is managing partner at Deep Future.

This episode is brought to you by:

Cresset prestigious family office for CEOs, founders, and entrepreneurs: https://cressetcapital.com/tim

Maui Nui Venison, delicious, nutrient-dense, and responsible red meat: https://mauinuivenison.com/lp/tim

AG1 all-in-one nutritional supplement: https://drinkag1.com/tim

Timestamps:

[00:00:00] Start.
[00:02:12] The first time I witnessed Pablos’ digital sleight of hand.
[00:04:33] How did Pablos become what he considers to be a hacker?
[00:08:04] The off-label mindset that makes a good hacker (like Samy Kamkar) great.
[00:17:07] The magic of Rodney Mullen.
[00:20:28] How Eric Johanson and Pablos gave life to adorable password thief Hackerbot.
[00:23:44] Hacker self-defense and the zero-click exploit market.
[00:27:11] International pockets of hacker density.
[00:30:13] Conventions where modern hackers congregate.
[00:30:48] Why, in geopolitics, technology is a game lost by the non-players.
[00:33:05] The case to rally behind new nuclear power.
[00:36:54] Sequencing priorities so the US can remain technologically competitive.
[00:44:49] Evaluating risk and reward in deep tech investment.
[00:50:40] Shoring up the shape of shipping.
[00:56:59] How Pablos gained his name and famous frames.
[00:58:48] Pablos is a possible-ist.
[00:59:45] What makes Pablos an attractive hire for the world’s richest people?
[01:02:06] From Silicon Valley to Seattle: the Blue Origin origin story.
[01:08:55] Why Pablos prevails over his M-dash peers.
[01:11:41] Zero Effect and WarGames: The only movies that matter?
[01:15:58] A major security malfunction exploited by Major Malfunction.
[01:18:30] The enigmatic Neal Stephenson.
[01:19:38] Long-form lessons gleaned from Jeff Bezos and the Blue Origin mission.
[01:27:15] For solving the world’s problems, communities are crucial.
[01:31:03] Newlab PSYOPS.
[01:34:44] AI and the ripple effects of China’s engineering-minded vs. America’s attorney-heavy leadership.
[01:48:20] Unearthing like-minded inventors and innovators.
[01:50:42] How Pablos learned salsa dancing via aikido vs. my own tango experience.
[02:08:27] Why you should invest or get involved in deep tech.
[02:14:45] Clearing up fusion confusion.
[02:21:17] Making progress happen is a team effort.
[02:24:19] Parting thoughts.

For show notes and past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast.

For deals from sponsors of The Tim Ferriss Show, please visit tim.blog/podcast-sponsors

Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (5-Bullet Friday) at tim.blog/friday.

For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts.

Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books.

Follow Tim:

Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss

Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss

YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss

Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/timferriss

Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show include Jerry Seinfeld, Hugh Jackman, Dr. Jane Goodall, LeBron James, Kevin Hart, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Jamie Foxx, Matthew McConaughey, Esther Perel, Elizabeth Gilbert, Terry Crews, Sia, Yuval Noah Harari, Malcolm Gladwell, Madeleine Albright, Cheryl Strayed, Jim Collins, Mary Karr, Maria Popova, Sam Harris, Michael Phelps, Bob Iger, Edward Norton, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Neil Strauss, Ken Burns, Maria Sharapova, Marc Andreessen, Neil Gaiman, Neil de Grasse Tyson, Jocko Willink, Daniel Ek, Kelly Slater, Dr. Peter Attia, Seth Godin, Howard Marks, Dr. Brené Brown, Eric Schmidt, Michael Lewis, Joe Gebbia, Michael Pollan, Dr. Jordan Peterson, Vince Vaughn, Brian Koppelman, Ramit Sethi, Dax Shepard, Tony Robbins, Jim Dethmer, Dan Harris, Ray Dalio, Naval Ravikant, Vitalik Buterin, Elizabeth Lesser, Amanda Palmer, Katie Haun, Sir Richard Branson, Chuck Palahniuk, Arianna Huffington, Reid Hoffman, Bill Burr, Whitney Cummings, Rick Rubin, Dr. Vivek Murthy, Darren Aronofsky, Margaret Atwood, Mark Zuckerberg, Peter Thiel, Dr. Gabor Maté, Anne Lamott, Sarah Silverman, Dr. Andrew Huberman, and many more.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show,
0:05.0	where it is my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out how they do what they do.
0:10.4	My guest today terrified me so much when I first saw him in person, Pablo's Holman, that I effectively avoided him for 15 years, although we've crossed paths and now we are friendly, but I saw him
0:24.2	stealing a few dozen credit card numbers from people on the front row of an event using hacking
0:30.3	technology.
0:31.1	And I thought, you know what, maybe I should just keep my distance.
0:34.5	Pablo's Holman is a hacker and inventor and the best-selling author of
0:37.8	Deep Future, Creating Technology That Matters, the indispensable guide to Deep Tech. And we'll talk
0:43.6	all about what that means. Previously, Pablo's worked on spaceships at Blue Origin, you know,
0:48.5	that thing by Jeff Bezos, may have heard of him, and help build the intellectual ventures
0:52.4	lab to invent a wide variety of breakthroughs,
0:54.9	including a brain surgery tool, a machine to suppress hurricanes, 3D food printers, and a laser
1:00.6	that can shoot down mosquitoes, part of an impact invention effort to eradicate malaria with
1:05.4	Bill Gates. Pablo's hosts the Deep Future podcast, and his TED Talks have been viewed more than 30 million times.
1:12.2	He's also managing partner in Deep Future, investing in technologies to solve the world's biggest problems.
1:16.6	We talk about his upbringing in Alaska of all places, commonalities between skateboarding innovators and hackers in the more common computer science sense of the term. we get into all sorts of nooks and crannies.
1:31.8	And we have a few mutual friends in common.
1:34.9	So I was able to ask a lot of questions that were, I suppose, a bit from behind the scenes, which I really enjoyed.
1:41.3	So you can find all things Pablo's at deepfuture. Tech. You can find him
1:45.8	on X at Pablo's. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start
1:53.3	shaking. Can I answer your personal question? Now we'll just see an appropriate time.
1:58.4	What if I did the opposite? I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endosclerosis.
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Tim Ferriss: Bestselling Author, Human Guinea Pig, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of Tim Ferriss: Bestselling Author, Human Guinea Pig and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.