I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Hey, I'm Adam Carolla.

Hi, my name is Penn Gillette.

Not only listening, I'm a guest.

I'm a pen and teller, and I am the fourth listener.

And I am the fourth listener.

And that must make me at least the fourth listener.

It's Dogma Debate with your host, Michael Regillio.

For extra content and to join the conversation

please head over to dogma debate.com and join our patreon wow is today's episode going to be

fantastic so good in fact that normally these long-form conversations the second half is for

patreon only I'm making the whole thing free because Normally these long-form conversations, the second half is for Patreon only.

I'm making the whole thing free because I just, I feel like this is an episode that you need to hear.

And that's because I have Jenny Gage.

Jenny is a woman who People Magazine called her the most famous ex-trad wife in the world, and she's so much more.

She's an ex-Morman, an ex-Christian, an ex-Christian nationalist, and by her own admission, an ex-white supremacist.

And these are not easy things for somebody that's come out on the other side of those things to talk about.

And you'll hear it.

You'll hear it in her voice that these are hard things to talk about

but this is an important conversation and one she wants to have and so I really I was moved by

Jenny her story is amazing and and her insights are amazing oh by the by the way, good news.

As you know, you may or may not know, but David Smalley is coming back to the podcast.

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