82. Phil Zuckerman — What it Means to be Moral: Why Religion is Not Necessary for Living an Ethical Life

The Michael Shermer Show

Michael Shermer

Dialogue, Science, Reason, Michaelshermer, Natural Sciences, Skeptic

4.4 • 921 Ratings

🗓️ 10 September 2019

⏱️ 77 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In What It Means to Be Moral: Why Religion Is Not Necessary for Living an Ethical Life, Phil Zuckerman argues that morality does not come from God. Rather, it comes from us: our brains, our evolutionary past, our ongoing cultural development, our social experiences, and our ability to reason, reflect, and be sensitive to the suffering of others. By deconstructing religious arguments for God-based morality and guiding readers through the premises and promises of secular morality, Zuckerman argues that the major challenges facing the world today―from global warming and growing inequality to religious support for unethical political policies to gun violence and terrorism―are best approached from a nonreligious ethical framework. In short, we need to look to our fellow humans and within ourselves for moral progress and ethical action. Shermer and Zuckerman discus:

what is morality and what does it mean to be good?
the evolutionary origins of morality
the “naturalistic fallacy,” or the “is-ought fallacy” and why it need not always apply
how we’ve made moral progress over the centuries thanks to secular forces
why religion is always behind the wave of moral progress (but takes credit for it later)
the origin of good and evil
how to solve crime, homelessness, and other social problems through science, reason, and secular forces, and
the seven secular virtues.

Dr. Phil Zuckerman is the author of several books, including The Nonreligious, Living the Secular Life, Society without God, and his latest book, What it Means to be Moral. He is a professor of sociology at Pitzer College and the founding chair of the nation’s first secular studies program. He lives in Claremont, California, with his wife and three children.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	This week's guest with his new book is Phil Zuckerman. He's a professor of sociology at
0:07.7	Pittserkology. He has the only secular studies program in the United States or even in the world I think.
0:15.0	He's the author several books including the non-religious living the secular life in society without God.
0:21.0	And the new book is really super interesting.
0:24.2	Of course, I love this stuff because I'm an atheist
0:26.5	and a secularist myself.
0:28.4	So I do push him on just for the sake of conversation.
0:32.1	These are the theist arguments, these are the conservative arguments, and so on just to see how he responds, because I always learn from other people and how they respond to some of these other arguments,
0:42.6	some of which are pretty good.
0:44.0	And he does that, and so we cover all the big questions
0:48.0	like what's the source of morality,
0:49.3	what's the source of meaning,
0:51.0	you know, the nature of good and evil and where that comes from if God didn't give it
0:55.6	had an evolution slash history create that we talk about the the arguments that Theists make about getting their morality from the Bible or whatever
1:09.9	your holy book is and why that doesn't work, you know, Plato's discussion via Socrates
1:18.1	of what it means to say that God gives us our morality, are these moral principles sound and
1:26.7	reasonable in their own right and God recognizes them or are they only moral because
1:30.7	he says so? So we deconstruct that great argument. Then we talk about
1:35.8	his seven secular virtues, that is how to be a good person without be believing in
1:41.9	God or whether you believe in God or not why you should be good.
1:45.0	In any case, Phil is one of the super interesting people doing research on these sorts of things and I really enjoyed our conversation if you appreciate the podcast you can support us at
1:56.1	Skeptic.com slash donate or through Patreon and as usual your donations in our case we are
	...

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