I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Hey, I'm Adam Carolla.

Hi, my name is Penn Gillette.

Not only listening, I'm a guest.

I'm a pen and teller, and I am the fourth listener.

And I am the fourth listener.

And that must make me at least the fourth listener.

It's Dogma Debate with your host, Michael Regillio.

For extra content and to join the conversation,

please head over to dogma debate.com and join our Patreon. And welcome to what promises

to be an absolutely interesting episode of dogma debate. Because I have Harvey Sparks here with me and Harvey wrote to me and he wants to have the discussion,

is Christianity good for society? I said, Harvey, that is a fantastic topic. Come on and let's discuss it.

So Harvey, welcome to dogma debate. Thank you. It's good to be with you. I've been on

a couple of times with David, but it's been a long time. So David C. Smalley. Yeah, yeah. He's off

tour in the world doing stand-up comedy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he even ended up coming to my church. We had a forum where he sat down

with me in front of my congregation and we had a discussion. And so it was a fun night. Interesting.

Yeah. What is your role at your church? Are you a pastor or just a pastor? Yeah. No, I'm the

pastor of my church here in Oklahoma

City. Okay. And what's the name of your church? It's give it a plug. Let's get some people in.

It's called Portland Avenue. Portland Avenue in Oklahoma City. And I was telling you before we started

rolling, I absolutely love Oklahoma City. You were shocked to learn that one of my favorite vegan restaurants is there, but we're everywhere now.

Yeah.

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