All right, next question for you, and this one I want to bake your, I want to bend your

mind a little bit, I want to, I want to, I want to, actually, a little bit.

So talk to me about the podcast you did with APEX, Amel, is there, now, are there a sponsor

or did you sponsor that podcast?

So Nick Charney, who's one of the founders of APEX Ammunition for years has been listening

to the podcast, and we've kind of been in back and forth, and I've had several hunters

over the years, whether it be Arizona auction tag holders that have bought the Goulds tags

and Mexico honours, different guys, using the APEX Ammunition, and I've seen what it

can do, and, you know, got a message from Nick, and we've basically been bouncing stuff

back and forth, and the topic of, you know, Jay, we want to be involved in what you're doing

came up, and so we kind of formed a relationship, and so APEX Ammunition is sponsoring the podcast

this spring, and I wanted to have Nick on the podcast, I encourage anyone out there listening

that's listening to this, you'll love the APEX podcast, and they have sent me out some

ammo, and then all this COVID-19 with our rangers shutting down a bunch of stuff I haven't

actually got to go out and shoot it through my shotguns yet, so the only experience that

I have is with, you know, my hunters and different people using it, one of my good friends

Phil Kramer, Kramer Hunts, he's been using it for the last several years, Dallas Strait,

the Straits out of Pennsylvania, they've been using it for years, and the thing about

it, Chris, that's so intriguing to me, and what I've seen from the birds that I've been

around that have been shot are guys are able to use 410 and 20 gauge shotguns and having

better penetration, having a more dense pattern than you even would with a 12 gauge shotgun,

not that you can't use APEX with a 12 gauge because you can and we are the spring,

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