747: How to Get Out of a Rut, with Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Coaching for Leaders

Dave Stachowiak

Education, Business, Management, Self-improvement, Careers

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 1 September 2025

⏱️ 29 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Anne-Laure Le Cunff: Tiny Experiments
Anne-Laure Le Cunff is an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. She is the founder of Ness Labs and author of its widely read newsletter, a researcher at the ADHD Research Lab, and an advisor for the Applied Neuroscience Association. She is the author of Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World*.

We all get into a rut sometimes. Once we notice we’re in one, our tendency is to work really hard to get out of it. In this conversation, Anne-Laure and I explore how starting with something tiny is often the better bet.
Key Points

SMART goals assume we know exactly where we’re heading. Most of the time, that’s not clear.
A tiny experiment focuses on outputs instead of outcomes.
To build more comfort with uncertainty, find one small place to experiment.
Our brain uses growth loops to constantly adjust our trajectory. We don’t go in circles; we grow in circles.
Improving growth isn’t about knowledge or skill, it’s thinking about your thinking, questioning your responses, and knowing your mind.
A simple, 5-minute tool is Plus Minus Next. It surfaces what’s working, what’s not, and your next steps.

Resources Mentioned

Tiny Experiments: How to Live Freely in a Goal-Obsessed World* by Anne-Laure Le Cunff

Interview Notes
Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).
Related Episodes

How to Become the Person You Want to Be, with James Clear (episode 376)
How to Change Your Behavior, with BJ Fogg (episode 507)
How to Create Space, with Juliet Funt (episode 540)

Discover More
Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Transcript

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0:00.0	We all get into a rut sometimes.
0:03.1	Once we notice we're in one, our tendency is to work really hard to get out of it.
0:08.5	In this episode, how starting with something tiny is often the better bet.
0:13.6	This is Coaching for Leaders, Episode 747.
0:17.7	Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.
0:26.1	Greetings to you from Orange County, California.
0:29.5	This is Coaching for Leaders, and I'm your host, Dave Stahoviac.
0:34.3	Leaders are born, they're made.
0:36.5	And this weekly show helps you discover leadership
0:39.0	wisdom through insightful conversations. We all get caught in ruts. We want to move forward on
0:46.9	something. We want to try something new. Maybe we do try something and then it doesn't work.
0:52.9	And we experience the frustration we all run into in our lives and doesn't work. And we experience the frustration we all run into
0:56.4	in our lives and in our work. And we don't necessarily move forward. Today, a conversation on
1:02.0	not only how to get out of a rut, but to move forward through it. I'm so pleased to welcome
1:06.7	Anne Laurie LeCunf. She is an award-winning neuroscientist, entrepreneur, and writer. She is the founder
1:13.3	of Ness Labs and the author of its widely read newsletter, a researcher at the ADHD Research Lab,
1:19.4	and an advisor for the Applied Neuroscience Association. She is the author of Tiny Experiments,
1:25.5	How to Live Freely in a Goal Obsessed World. And Lori, what a
1:30.1	pleasure to have you here. Thank you so much for having me, Dave. The pleasure is mine.
1:34.3	The last part of that phrase from the subtitle of the book, A Goal Obsessed World, I've been
1:41.8	thinking about that because if someone had asked me 15 or 20 years ago,
1:48.2	how do I get moving? How do I get out of a rut? I inevitably would have responded and said,
	...

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