was managing a department. I had to have meetings. I had to give talks. I had to do presentations.

And I remember at Apple in the middle of a training exercise for a bunch of managers and then just

going, who's standing up here talking, you know, really looking in. And then just like I was

another person, I was just floating awareness in the room. There's Dan waving his arms and pointing

at the board and going on and I have nothing to do with it. It's just running on its own. Experiencing

that sense of space was just very profound. It never left.

Welcome. welcome to Buddha at the gas pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the gas pump is an ongoing series of conversations with spiritually awakening people. I've done 730 something of

them now. And if you are not familiar with this and you'd like to check out the archive, go to batgap.com, B-A-T-G-A-P, and you'll see them categorized in various ways.

This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers. That's really our only means of support.

So if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there are PayPal buttons on every

page of the site and a page about alternatives to PayPal. Also, it helps in terms of viewership if you

like and subscribe and so on. When you're watching a YouTube video it helps with

Google's algorithm in terms of making the thing accessible to more people so my guest today

is Dan Kelso Dan worked at a number of companies as a human factors engineer.

If he wants, he can explain to us what human factors is, but it's not too relevant to our interview.

Dan's first love was always spiritual exploration.

In 2011, after a number of years of trial and error, refining the process of self-inquiry into deep self-investigation,

there came an undeniable recognition that he was not a separate self, simply no one at all.

There was only this selfless this, aware existence. This became his permanent condition.

Soon after, from a certain perspective, Dan left a successful corporate position and his old life,

following an intuitive impulse to be in a more free, natural, and creative circumstance.

He now lives with his wife, Victoria, in the beautiful mountains of North Carolina,

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