730. Julie Nelson

Buddha at the Gas Pump

Rick Archer

Religion & Spirituality, Society & Culture, Philosophy, Spirituality

4.7 • 737 Ratings

🗓️ 20 May 2025

⏱️ 128 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Julie Seido Nelson is a transmitted teacher (Sensei) in the Maezumi Roshi Zen lineage. Her home Zen community is the Greater Boston Zen Center, a sangha which has experienced three major upheavals due to teacher arrogance and abuses of power over the last several years. She is also a teacher at the Great Plains Zen Center in Monroe, Wisconsin, and has written for Buddhist audiences in Tricycle magazine and on her blog. Having begun Zen practice in 2004, she has found it to be of immense value. She is deeply saddened when people, either in addition to or instead of realizing the benefits, suffer great harm. When not reflecting writing about Zen, she sometimes writes and give talks based on her pre-retirement academic work as a feminist and ecological economist. She enjoys visiting her two children and two grandchildren and enjoying the New England outdoors. Books: Practicing Safe Zen: Navigating the Pitfalls on the Road to Liberation (Monkfish, 2025) Amazon Indie Pubs Economics for Humans (University of Chicago Press, 2nd ed. 2018) Website: julieanelson.com Discussion of this interview in the BatGap Community Facebook Group Summary and transcript of this interview Interview recorded May 11, 2025 YouTube Video Chapters: 00:00:00 The Myth of Teachers as Exemplars in Education  00:05:07 Measuring Spiritual Attainment and Its Challenges  00:10:46 The Journey to Self-Realization: Insights from Soto Zen  00:14:29 Importance of Ethics in Spiritual Teaching  00:19:30 The Transformative Power of Momentary Cosmic Experiences  00:24:23 Shadow Work and Spiritual Growth  00:28:30 Legal Challenges in Zen Communities  00:32:31 Identifying and Avoiding Cult-Like Spiritual Groups  00:37:38 The Challenges of Becoming a Zen Teacher  00:41:51 Zen and the Importance of a Beginner's Mind  00:46:30 Trusting the Dharma vs. Human Advice  00:50:48 Embracing Buddha Nature Through Life's Storms  00:55:50 Examining Zen Precepts and Self-Awareness  01:00:23 Navigating Zen Teachings and Moral Conduct  01:05:06 The Misunderstanding of No-Self  01:09:12 The Impact of Long-Term Meditation on the Brain  01:14:22 Power Dynamics in Teaching and Spiritual Leadership  01:17:44 Navigating Teacher-Student Boundaries in Dharma Practice  01:21:06 Institutional Misconduct and In-Group Protection  01:25:22 Understanding DARVO: Strategies of Manipulation  01:28:38 Recognizing and Avoiding Cult-like Behaviors in Groups  01:32:04 Understanding Authority in Charismatic Groups and Zen  01:36:13 Discernment in Supporting Charities  01:39:36 The Essence of Dharma Teaching Transmission  01:44:16 Recognizing Genuine Spiritual Awakening  01:48:28 Finding Inner Security Beyond External Influences  01:53:01 Financial Misuse in Spiritual Communities  01:57:21 Navigating the Path to Spiritual Development  02:01:19 Pre-Order "Practicing Safe Zen"  02:03:38 Engaging with Greater Boston Zen Center Online

Transcript

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0:00.0	I think the idea of teachers as exemplars actually tends to get both teachers and students in trouble.
0:05.1	Because the students come in with the attitude that this person should be an exemplar
0:09.3	and may project a lot of idealized virtues onto this teacher.
0:14.3	And a fortune from what I saw, I think a lot of teachers come to believe their own PR.
0:19.0	People are acting kind of worshipable towards them,
0:22.1	so they start to think that they really are those exemplars.
0:32.1	Welcome to Buddha at the gas pump.
0:34.2	My name is Rick Archer.
0:36.0	My guest today is Julie Nelson. And I read Julie's book called
0:41.6	Practicing Safe Zen. And as I read the book, I was thinking, this would be one of those
0:47.6	interviews where I wish we could just talk for 24 hours and read the book aloud and then
0:53.3	keep stopping every other sentence to
0:55.2	discuss the point being made because there were so many good points made in the book but
0:59.6	that would be an awfully long interview i think we'd have a lot of drop-offs um so what i'm going to do
1:05.3	for starters is just have julie introduce herself and then we'll get into it so tell us a bit
1:10.1	about yourself, Julie.
1:11.6	Yeah.
1:12.0	So I am in my 60s with a couple grandkids.
1:16.8	I just had brunch with today since today is Mother's Day.
1:19.6	I practiced Zen for about 20 years.
1:23.2	I did some Biphasana meditation before that.
1:27.4	I started in Robert Lakeaca Aiken's lineage later
	...

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