Right, well, welcome to another special episode of The Restless Politics with me, Alistair

Campbell and me, Alistair Campbell, because Rory, I've told him he's got to have his holiday,

he's been flying around too much, he's got a few days with his kids and his wife in Kenya.

So he's going to miss out on one of my favourite people in politics around the world,

and one of my daughter's favourite people, because she's a feminist icon, I think it's fair to say.

So a special welcome to the former Prime Minister of Australia, Julia Gillard.

Well, it's great to be with you, but I just wanted to clear at the start, I am no substitute for Rory.

My idea of going for a walk is a gentle stroll by a river not hiking across Afghanistan,

so no, I am no substitute. You are a great walker though, aren't you?

I know that, that's your kind of way of relaxation is to go over long walks.

I am a great walker, but nowhere near Rory's elite standards.

No, I think if Rory can maybe think about walking across Australia, then we really could

put him in the elite's standards. Now listen, Julia, thanks for talking to me,

and I want to start with two things that are both related to your experience,

but also topical. You became Prime Minister in 2010, and although Australia wasn't maybe

it hit as hard by the global financial crisis as other parts of the world,

that did to some extent define what you had to deal with.

So I just wonder what you learned from that, that maybe you could pass on to

current presidents and Prime Ministers with the financial up people that we're going through.

I think today, the day we're talking, Jim Charmers, the Australian Treasurer,

he's setting out his budget. What can leaders today learn from the lessons of the global

financial crisis, do you think? I think actually leaders today have got it tougher in many ways,

...