Today's episode we have Ben Horning from BH design build. He has an interesting story because he starts actually in a very business mentality. Is that the right way to say it?

Yeah.

Business mindset?

Business mindset, that's what I was looking for.

Versus many of us who start as a carpenter and build a business from there he actually built the business and

continue to build the business while developing relationships with trades people.

He went with the numbers.

He did he didn't work his way up through the trades.

He kind of came in the other end. He had a different drive.

And he appreciates a craftsmanship, but he shows, he talks a lot about how you can bring

value financially to the craftsmanship that we're promoting.

And you have to respect yourself.

And time.

Yes.

That's a good one.

Hope you guys enjoy it. So Ben, you sent us an email a couple weeks back when we did the hardcore episode.

Yeah.

And you had an interesting discussion.

I think you were, part of it, I feel like the email was formatted to like help save us and I think but I think we're all on the same page with you in the sense that you know

It was titled why not do both and what you were talking about is why not do

do both in the sense of putting out high quality work but also being super

profitable and I oftentimes talk and we oftentimes talk about how you need to be in it for the long run you need to put your best foot forward over investing projects or you know market everything but and eventually you'll make money but you're what you're saying is well why do you have to eventually make money why can't you just make money right now?

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