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Freakonomics, M.D.

70. Why Are There Still So Few Female Surgeons?

Freakonomics, M.D.

Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Society & Culture, Science

4.81.1K Ratings

🗓️ 27 January 2023

⏱️ 29 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Success and failure are hard to measure in medicine. Bapu looks at how surgeons are judged after a bad outcome — and whether men and women are treated the same.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

The Economist, Heather Sarsons, doesn't usually think too much about medicine or health care.

0:11.4

When I started my PhD, I was pretty interested in looking at why we still see gender and race

0:16.8

inequality in labor markets. Heather is a professor at the University of British Columbia,

0:21.8

and most of the time, her work focuses on discrimination. A lot of the models in economics

0:28.1

focus on two types of discrimination, taste-based, which is the idea that people just may not like

0:33.9

other people from a certain group and then statistical discrimination. Statistical discrimination

0:39.6

can also be harmful, but in theory, it doesn't arise from prejudice or racial or gender bias.

0:46.0

Instead, it relies on obvious traits, like race or gender, to make generalizations about a person

0:54.0

If you take the example of, say, women studying math, if historically women are less likely to have

1:00.1

invested in maths and science skills, then employers knowing that might hold women to a higher standard,

1:05.4

and so a woman really has to send a strong signal that, I'm very good at math, I've really studied

1:10.9

this. But it can be exhausting to have to send a strong signal. At some point, it becomes

1:16.8

sufficiently costly to have to study so hard, take so many difficult courses, just to signal that

1:21.9

you're as good as men, and basically the employers' beliefs are reinforced. Women don't invest in

1:28.8

those skills, and the employer is correct in thinking that women are less likely to invest in these

1:33.4

skills. The scenario Heather describes is a self-fulfilling one that's often based on perceptions.

1:40.0

It could be perceptions about anything, how hard working someone is, how smart or capable they are,

1:46.0

how affable they are. But the challenging thing about perceptions is that they're hard to prove

1:51.4

with numbers. If you're creative though, it's not an impossible problem to solve.

2:01.2

I was interested in this question about how we attribute success and failure. If someone performs

2:07.3

really well at their job, do we think that that person's really great at this job, or do we think

2:12.0

that they kind of got lucky or got help? If they perform poorly one day, do we think that they just

...

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