Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

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Today I'm going to talk about cults. Mostly I've been in a cultish frame of mind in the

last week, getting over bronchitis, so my apologies for my voice being even raspy or than it usually

is. But I've been paying attention to cults for some reason, and I've focused on two cults

that have been around for a while, Heaven's Gate and Scientology. I recently saw the film

going clear based on Lawrence Wright's book by that name, and the book is well worth reading.

The film is really a devastating take down of Scientology. I can't imagine it won't do

the organization lasting harm if enough people see it. It just, it exposes how goofy Elrond

Hubbard was and how sinister his organization soon became under him and his successors. So

I do see that film. It's playing on HBO and had some theatrical release as well. But I've

mostly been thinking about the Heaven's Gate cult, which as you might recall, about 18 years

ago, came to the world's attention because 39 members, including the chief member, a man

named Marshall Apple White, who was known as Doe to his devotees, all took their lives

in a mansion near San Diego. They all dawned identical pairs of Nike's and drank a cocktail

of phenobarbital and vodka, I believe, and then got in their bunk beds and covered themselves

with purple shrouds and departed. They imagined for a spaceship that was following in the

...