All right next question for you and this one I want to make your I want to bend your mind a little bit I want to I want to

Actually a little bit so talk to me about

The podcast you did with Apex Animal.

Now, are they a sponsor or did you sponsor that podcast?

So, Nick Charney, who's one of the founders of Apex Ammunition for years has been listening to the podcast and

We've kind of been in back and forth and I've had several hunters over the years

whether it be Arizona auction tag holders that have bought the Goulds tags and

Mexico hunters different guys using the apex ammunition,

and I've seen what it can do,

and you know, got a message from Nick,

and we've basically been bouncing stuff back and forth

and the topic of, you know, Jay, we want to be involved in what you're doing came up and so we kind of formed a relationship and so Apex ammunition is sponsoring the podcast this spring and I wanted to have Nick on the podcast.

I encourage anyone out there listening that's listening to this.

You'll love the Apex

podcast and they have sent me out some ammo and then all this COVID-19 with our ranges shutting down a bunch of stuff. I haven't actually got to go out and shoot it through my shotguns yet

So the only experience that I have is with you know my hunters and different people using it.

One of my good friends, Phil Kramer,

Kramer Hunt's, he's been using it for the last several years.

Dallas Strait, the Straits out of Pennsylvania, they've been using it for years and the

the thing about it Chris that's so intriguing to me and what I've seen from

the birds that I've been around that have been shot are

guys are able to use 410 and 20 gauge shotguns and having better penetration, having a more dense pattern than you even would with a 12-gauge

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