All right, so the first thing I want to ask you is a two-part question.

What was the most difficult part about having a baby yourself and what was the most beautiful, rewarding part of the birth process specifically?

I was thinking about this yesterday, actually.

And what was once your baby? She is sitting right down there.

The most difficult part was that I had to come into contact with a lot of grief that I think had just been sitting underneath the surface for many, many years.

So in the process of birthing her, the labor process itself,

and then like this kind of more miniature but intense portal of actually birthing her,

it was like, because of how that space is, it can feel like infinite time. Like for me,

it lasted three days, but I felt like I was on this

really long walkabout. Like it could have been months is how it felt in my system. And so I remember

at that time just grappling with like, can I surrender? Can I trust this space? You know, can I trust the people in the room? I do. And like in that kind of

toggling, I started having recollections of things in childhood that were deeply difficult to sit

with. And that's where I came into contact with, I was like, oh, there's a lot of grief here.

And it's going to have to come at some point. But now I know that it's here and it's going to come. And I was like, oh, there's a lot of grief here and it's going to have to come at some point,

but now I know that it's here and it's going to come and I can't, like, hold the door closed anymore.

So I'd say that was the most difficult part. And I remember at one point when I was in transition,

which is that point between first stage labor and second stage labor where you start actually pushing the baby out. There's this really small but intense period called transition, and it's where all the hormones start to shift gears. And I looked at the midwife. I said, I can't do, like, I don't think I can do this. Like, she's like, well, I'm going to invite you to reach down and see if you fill the baby's head. And I was like, no, I just don't want to do this anymore. She was, like, grabbed my hand, and she's like well I'm going to invite you to reach down and see if you feel the baby's head and I was like no I just don't want to do this anymore

she's like grabbed my hand and she's like and I could feel the baby's head and I was like okay you know but it was this moment where I was like I'd rather just have this all be over and doesn't matter and she and she looked at me said would you really go to the hospital and like just make it all check out? Do you want to check out? And I was like, no, I'd rather just stay here and see what happens. And then I got all the, all the energy that I could. And what was on the other side of that was receiving this baby, you know, little seraphina, into my arms. And that's when I felt for the first time that I had purpose in life, which I would say is the, like you asked about maybe the pleasure of this experience. It was like right after feeling completely lost alone in the dark, confused, confronted with all this

grief and intensity, like immediately I was like, oh, I finally have a purpose.

Like, it's so clear what my purpose is and all of this like wandering around and all this

travel throughout the world and like university and all

these class and everything that I had been doing to find the structure and the connection to

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