660. How to "Outsmart" Loneliness with Michael Trainer

The Life Stylist

Luke Storey

Society & Culture, Health & Fitness, Spirituality, Alternative Health, Religion & Spirituality

4.7 • 2.1K Ratings

🗓️ 7 April 2026

⏱️ 146 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Why does real connection feel rare, even when you’re constantly around others?

I sit down with Michael Trainer, author of Resonance: The Art and Science of Human Connection, to question what we think we know about loneliness and human connection. His background in neuroscience and global initiatives brings a different lens to something most people assume is purely emotional.

We challenge the idea that more people equals more connection. It becomes clear that the quality of your relationships directly affects your biology, from your nervous system to long-term health.

I also get into my own experiences with confronting reality versus escaping it. This tension shows up clearly when we talk about psychedelics and healing and how they relate to sobriety.

When your environment or relationships don’t match who you are, your system responds. That’s where resonance stops being abstract and starts becoming something you can feel.

Read: Resonance: The Art and Science of Human Connection by Michael Trainer (https://amzn.to/4lepU1n)

You’ll learn:

[00:00] Introduction

[06:05] Psychedelics as confrontation vs. escape, and the fake shaman problem

[14:39] The cruel irony of writing a book about loneliness

[21:15] What Michael discovered in Sri Lanka that most outsiders never find

[34:47] More connected to God, lonelier with people, the paradox nobody talks about

[51:59] What a real ceremonial leader sounds like, the Jerry Nelson story

[01:01:10] A father who never heard "I love you" and refused to let love die on a napkin

[01:21:03] What 12-Step groups and indigenous healing traditions actually share

[01:40:57] Why we're more connected than ever but lonelier than ever

[01:52:52] Nature as a nervous system reset, vision fasts, and 40 days in the dark

[01:59:13] Declaring your fear on stage and singing to 50 horses in Patagonia

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Resources Mentioned:

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Read: Animal Power: 100 Animals to Energize Your Life and Awaken Your Soul by Alyson Charles | Book

Alive Again: A Story of Music and Memory | Website

Read: Secrets of the Talking Jaguar: Memoirs from the Living Heart of a Mayan Village by Martin Prechtel | Book

Read: The Disobedience of the Daughter of the Sun: A Mayan Tale of Ecstasy, Time, and Finding One's True Form by Martín Prechtel | Book

Carbogenetics | Website

Read: The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield | Book

Read: Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear by Elizabeth Gilbert | Book

Read: Social: Why Our Brains Are Wired to Connect by Matthew D. Lieberman | Book

Read: Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly by Anthony Bourdain | Book

Full show notes at lukestorey.com/trainer3

Find more from Michael:

Michael Trainer | Instagram | Facebook | X | YouTube

Resonance: The Art & Science of Human Connection | Website

Find more from Luke:

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Michael Traynor, my man.
0:08.2	I was thinking about you this morning in preparation for this episode, and I know I've seen you a couple times since, but for some reason, when I think about you or your name will come up with Allison, and I think back to a peyote ceremony that we shared
0:23.3	many years ago back in LA and I think it was the one it was in the tiled house yes right yeah
0:30.9	yeah what a crazy experience and the funny thing is cookie was with us that night I remember I
0:37.0	remember and she was getting a little hyper.
0:39.7	I usually, if we're going to be in public, I'll give her some CBD or something, but she gets very,
0:45.0	you know, animals are sensitive to energy.
0:46.7	And she was really hyped and kind of, you know, distracting people, which, of course,
0:52.0	was mortifying.
0:53.0	And the facilitator wanted to give her some peyote.
0:58.0	I'm like, oh, she knows what she's doing, you know? So she gave cookie peyote. And I remember when
1:03.6	the sun came up, and then she chilled right out, you know. When the sun came up, I was like,
1:08.9	okay, Cookie, let's go outside. And she was high as
1:11.4	shit. And she just, like, stood at the lawn. It was just frozen. I think kind of going,
1:18.2	what is this? You know, daylight? Yeah, it was really fun. I'll never forget that. Look on her
1:23.0	face. Well, for any animal activist listening, I'm sorry, she was fine, know that indigenous peoples, you know, very frequently give their dogs various plant medicines. I can just see someone like, ah. Well, it was, it was an incredible, I remember that, I remember that day. I actually haven't sat with, I haven't sat with that medicine for a number of years.
1:46.9	It was just in Mexico literally last night and had an opportunity, as you know, have a deep
1:52.2	reverence for the indigenous and for that work I take extremely seriously.
1:57.4	And it was interesting because I was like, I really sat with it and I was like, okay.
2:02.8	And it's such a heart opening medicine and I've been really working on the heart because I feel like we're so head dominant.
2:08.3	I mean, you and I both have been in this book writing process.
2:10.5	And so it's been a very cerebral time.
	...

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