644: This FBI Negotiation Trick Gets People to Say YES (By Saying NO) | Chris Voss

The Foundr Podcast with Nathan Chan

Nathan Chan

Entrepreneurship, Business, Marketing

4.9 • 664 Ratings

🗓️ 26 March 2026

⏱️ 52 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Chris Voss spent decades as the FBI's lead international kidnapping negotiator, where a single wrong word could cost someone's life. After talking down armed bank robbers and negotiating with terrorists, he discovered something critical: the rational bargaining models taught in business schools don't just fail—they're dangerous. Compromise is guaranteed lose-lose. Win-win deals are often code for "I'm picking your pocket." And everything you've been taught about getting to yes is actually destroying your leverage and costing you millions without you even realizing it. In this interview, the former FBI negotiator and author of Never Split the Difference breaks down why forcing someone to say "no" is more powerful than chasing a yes, the exact calibrated questions that make aggressive counterparts solve your problems for you, and how to spot the verbal and tonal cues that reveal when someone is lying or hiding critical deal information. What you'll learn in this interview: • Why compromise is guaranteed lose-lose and destroys value in negotiations • How cutthroat negotiators use "win-win" terminology to pick your pocket • Why Chris responds with "mutual gain" instead of accepting win-win framing • The Black Swan skills: tiny tweaks that massively accelerate trust and profitability • How to gather information without making people feel questioned • Why asking questions decreases trust and what to do instead • The power of mirroring: repeating the last 1-3 words to uncover hidden information • How to use calibrated questions to make counterparts solve your problems • Why focusing on terms instead of price creates more profitable deals • The one negotiation habit that compounds over decades: summarizing their perspective • How to get "that's right" confirmations that create instant collaboration • Why understanding their perspective accelerates deals and employee alignment If you're raising capital, hiring executives, negotiating supplier deals, closing enterprise contracts, or navigating any high-stakes conversation, this episode will completely rewire how you communicate under pressure and extract value from every interaction. SAVE 50% ON OMNISEND FOR 3 MONTHS Get 50% off your first 3 months of email and SMS marketing with Omnisend with the code FOUNDR50. Just head to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://your.omnisend.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to get started. WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS? Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → ⁠⁠https://foundr.com/operators⁠⁠ WANT TO GROW YOUR BRAND WITH META ADS? Join the Foundr Operators Waitlist → https://foundr.com/operators HOW WE CAN HELP YOU SCALE YOUR BUSINESS FASTER Learn directly from 7, 8 & 9-figure founders inside Foundr+ Start your $1 trial → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/startdollartrial⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ PREFER A CUSTOM ROADMAP AND 1-ON-1 COACHING? → Starting from scratch? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-start-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ → Already have a store? Apply here → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://foundr.com/pages/coaching-growth-application⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CONNECT WITH NATHAN CHAN Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/nathanchan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanhchan/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CONNECT WITH CHRIS VOSS Instagram → ⁠https://www.instagram.com/thefbinegotiator/ LinkedIn → ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/christophervoss FOLLOW FOUNDR FOR MORE BUSINESS GROWTH STRATEGIES YouTube → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/2uyvzdt⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/foundr/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Facebook → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.twitter.com/foundr⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ LinkedIn → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/company/foundr/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Podcast → ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.foundr.com/podcast⁠

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey Founder Fam, I want to talk to you about something super exciting. We're officially partnered with Omniscend, the email marketing and SMS platform built specifically for e-commerce founders. We've been recommending OmnisCent to Founder students for a while now because it just works. Whether you're launching your first store or you're scaling the seven figures, it really helps you automate your marketing and get real results.
0:24.0	Did you know on average, Omnysend customers make $68 for every $1 they spend, which is an insanely good return on investment.
0:32.6	And because you're part of the founder community, you get 50% off your first three months with the code Founder 50.
0:39.3	Just head to Omnisend.com forward slash founder without the E to get started.
0:45.1	All right.
0:45.9	Now let's jump back into the show.
0:48.8	Everything in life is a negotiation.
0:51.2	And what if everything you have been taught about negotiation, compromise, win-win
0:55.9	deals, getting to the yes is actually destroying your leverage, costing you millions of dollars
1:01.3	without even realizing it? Well, today's guest, Chris Voss, former FBI lead international
1:06.6	kidnapping negotiator, an author of Never Split the Difference, who spent decades in situations
1:12.1	where a single wrong word could cost somebody's life. After talking down armed bank robbers,
1:18.7	negotiating with terrorists, Chris discovered that the rational bargaining models taught in business
1:24.4	schools don't just fail, they're dangerous. And now he teaches founders,
1:28.6	CEOs and negotiators worldwide how to use tactical empathy to really uncover hidden information,
1:35.4	diffuse conflict and gain leverage even when it seems like you don't have anything. This is a
1:40.7	masterclass in conversation you'll learn why forcing someone to say no is more powerful than chasing a yes.
1:47.4	The exact calibrated questions that make aggressive counterparts solve your problems for you
1:51.9	and how to spot the verbal and tonal cues that reveal when someone is actually lying or hiding critical deal information
1:59.1	and the daily negotiation habit that Chris believes compounds
2:02.8	into 10x results over a decade.
2:05.0	So whether you're raising capital, hiring executives, negotiating your next stock deal,
	...

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