Looks Winter.

All right, we're live.

All right.

Nice to meet you, man.

You too. I knew of you as an actor, and I knew of your work as a director, but I didn't know that you were into

serious shit like this deep web documentary.

This is really fascinating.

I was watching it just before you got here so it's all fresh and crackling in my mind.

And first of all, how'd you get involved in this

uh... well a couple things one is uh... first of all it's great to be on the

show been a big fan for a long time but uh...

i uh... got online pretty heavily in the sort of late 80s early 90s and in what was known as the

the BBS Usenet era and in those days you I was really interested in sort of burgeoning online communities

people who were the sort of the growth of internet-based communities and in those

days you could get on and you would sort of create sort of clubs or groups or rooms as they were

called with all kinds of like-minded people and then you started finding all kinds of stuff that was going on.

And it wasn't by any means just illegal stuff. It was just it was sort of

verified specialized whatever politics activism people who are interested in

drugs people who are interested in sort of you know pushing boundaries in all these

different ways and at that point I discovered encryption people who were using the

internet for anonymity and privacy some of them were like parts of like you know self-help groups or like rape

counseling any number of things but was also people who were selling drugs.

...