I'm I'm In today's new episode, we speak with former FBI agent Jeffrey Kelly about his brand new book, 13 perfect fugitives, the true story of the mob,

murder, and the world's largest art heist.

Lance, as you know, we have known of this case for a long time.

In fact, we have a spin-off podcast called Empty Frames all about the Isabella

Stewart Gardner Museum Heist in 1990 in Boston, Massachusetts. And this guest, Jeffrey

Kelly, is pretty much a dream guest as far as that podcast goes. What do you think of this conversation?

Yeah, I mean, you nailed it. I mean, it's really remarkable when you've been covering one story for so long. And we've been covering many stories for a long time. And the Isabella Stewart Garden Museum

heist is one that we've been covering for years. And every one of these stories has that handful of guests that you're just like, if we could get this person, you know, it would answer a lot of questions.

And Jeff Kelly is that person among the few of those people to come on to talk about the Gardner Heist.

So he wrote a book. We're more than happy to have him on.

He turned out to be an amazing guest,

very forthcoming, very personable, great sense of humor, and was able to fill in a lot of

the blanks that I think with all these stories that we talk about just naturally happened because

you don't have a Jeff Kelly. And we couldn't have been more grateful to have him come on.

Yes, and this episode is going to air on crawl space, on missing, and then on empty frames.

And then Lance and I are going to do a debrief on empty frames based on this conversation.

Because as you said, I mean, this answers so many questions that we've had for years about this case. And frankly, the

information is right there, all in the book. A great book out on March 10, 2026 from Simon and

Schuster. And keep in mind, we've covered several books about this case.

This one is, it takes the cake.

And it's really not particularly close because he is a retired FBI agent.

He was leading the investigation for the FBI for many years as we discuss in this conversation. So it's really hard to find a better

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