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The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

555. The Ethics of Iterability: Can Culture Survive Without a Moral Core? | Sam Harris

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

DailyWire+

Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.634.5K Ratings

🗓️ 12 June 2025

⏱️ 96 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris explore the breakdown of institutions in the digital age, and how difficult it’s become to identify what’s true and what’s not. Harris voices deep concern over the role independent media and social platforms play in amplifying misinformation, especially post-October 7th. They discuss the addictive, fragmenting nature of platforms like X, the erosion of trust in institutions, the dangers of AI-generated identity theft — and possible solutions. The result is a sobering analysis of epistemic collapse, digital psychopathy, and the urgent need for institutional structure in a world where mass information fails us. 'This episode was filmed on June 6th, 2025. | Links | For Sam Harris: On X https://twitter.com/MakingSenseHQ On Instagram https://www.instagram.com/samharrisorg/?hl=en On Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@samharrisorg Substack https://samharris.substack.com/ The Waking Up App https://www.wakingup.com/

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm increasingly worried that we have effectively rendered ourselves

0:05.0

ungovernable based on the way we have shattered the information landscape.

0:10.0

This is a consequence of hyper-connectivity and stunning ease of communication.

0:16.0

You can just go down a rabbit hole and find endless confirmation that's fairly anonymized.

0:21.6

We have to ground our perceptions in an axiomatic framework.

0:26.6

The old norms that the gatekeepers, I mean, for all their faults, they had standards.

0:32.6

I don't trust anything the New York Times prints at all.

0:35.6

The gatekeeping institutions have also revealed themselves as catastrophically flawed.

0:42.1

The antidote to that, to the failures of institutions, is not new standards.

0:48.2

It's really to apply the old standards.

1:05.8

Music the old standards. I've spent a lot of time over the years speaking with Sam Harris.

1:10.1

We've spoken publicly half a dozen times

1:12.8

and privately far more than that. We're coming at the same problems, I would say, from quite

1:18.4

different perspectives and establishing some concordance over time. Today we went down the rabbit

1:25.0

hole of rabbit holes, I suppose, discussing the fragmentation of the narrative

1:30.0

landscape on the social media front and what that means for cultural incoherence, weakness,

1:36.9

demoralization, deceit, self-deception, and inability to understand one another. And so join us as we attempt to clarify the

1:48.8

catastrophe of infinite plurality. Well, Mr. Harris, it looks like it's time for our

1:55.8

approximately annual conversation. Yeah, nice. You're the clock that ticks once a year.

2:02.5

Yeah, well, I suspect that's more than enough.

2:05.6

So tell me what you're thinking about lately, Sam, on the intellectual side and what you're

2:12.9

doing.

...

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