Marshall here, welcome back to the realignment.

Today's guest is Elizabeth Wilkins, the new president and CEO of the Rosal Institute,

a key figure in recent democratic policymaking, having served in senior roles at the White

House and the Federal Trade Commission.

This episode dives deep into one of the most hotly debated frameworks in today's policy world,

Abundance.

It's a concept that stirred controversy across the ideological spectrum and gotten more attention

than your average policy book.

Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson's Abundance book recently hit number one on the New York Times' best-seller list.

Abundance has been praised for its ambition, criticized for his blind

spots, and from my perspective, often misunderstood in the fog of political marketing. As regular

listeners know, I've been especially interested in exploring how the left, particularly the

institutional, labor, and antitrust-minded segments of the left respond to the abundance agenda,

whether there's

a real potential for synthesis with its core ideas. Elizabeth is the perfect person to walk us

through all that. Not only does she bring a government-centered lens and deep background

regulatory work to the table, but she also comes from an organizing tradition that keeps

questions of agency and dignity at the center of

economic policy. In this conversation, we dig into reviews on the limitations of abundance,

the overlooked threat of concentrated corporate power, future of state capacity, and the need

for a more grounded, urgent approach to restoring faith in government, one built not just on big

investments, but on small,

...