My guest today, Jared Diamond, has written some of the best-selling popular science books

of all time, including Guns, Dreams, and Steel, and Collapse.

What might surprise you is that the study of civilizations, it wasn't his first career,

it wasn't even his second career.

The MacArthur Grand means that people think that you can do more valuable things than

gold ladders and even more valuable things than New Guinea birds.

Welcome to People I Mostly Admire, with Steve Levin.

I've long marbled over two things about Jared Diamond.

First, how could anyone know so much about so many things he does?

And second, what sort of arrogance?

For sub-confidence, does it take to think that you can unravel some of the biggest

toughest questions in human history?

My goal today is to figure out the answer to both those questions.

So many listeners know your books like Guns, Dreams, and Steel, and Collapse, massive bestsellers.

Few listeners, however, will have sampled your earlier writings, like transport of salt

and water, and rabbit, and guinea pig gallbladder, or maybe effects of pH and polyvalent

cautions on the selective permeability of gallbladder epithelium to monovalent ions.

I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say your research focus has changed more over time

than anyone that I've ever known.

It's true, there are not many gallbladder experts who consider dropping out of science

and then turned into geographers.

So I'm curious, how did you initially get into the study of gallbladder?

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