In the film, you were talking about discovering dance as therapy.

Just for listeners who, I mean, people can watch the film if they want to learn more about the trauma and kind of what led to that.

But for listeners who are, you know, going through something in life that are seeking different forms of therapy, can you explain how you found that one and why it was beneficial, why it worked for you?

It was actually a waitress that was really flirty.

They got me into them.

She's like doing these twice a week improvisational dance.

This is like around the time when I started drawing the sand, actually.

But she was, like, come out, you know, to come out, check out this thing.

Then I did it twice a week for like 15 years or something.

Yeah, it's just sort of a psychological exploration of kind of going through things without

no talk therapy, thinking through things while physically expressing.

Yeah, things like gentleness and the push and pull and gracefulness.

And it's awkward when you're suffering and in a lot of pain.

And bringing some beauty,

which is like when people are dancing and they're considering, you know,

like motion, each other's motions and push and pull and subtleties and the strength in life

comes from, sure, from building muscles and things, but also recognizing meaning and meaning is how we engage

both with people, both with the world and with people.

So I think dance is kind of like a way to define what's important.

And just having, you know, caring for yourself and for other people.

Yeah, I think for dance for me was never about, in that context was never about, like,

being, like, surfing, like being the biggest asshole out of push-of-point and catching all the waves and that super competitive

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