This is the Bay Maw podcast with Marty Solomon.

I'm his co-host, Brent Billings.

Today, I'm with El Grover Fricks to get the big picture about our holy book.

I'm so excited.

Elle, you have promised me immediately before we started here that

this is going to be your weirdest episode ever. Here's the thing. Normally, if it's just me presenting

on something, I feel a healthy amount of pressure to like be well-rounded, to give like a straightforward

take. And maybe it's got a weird little appendage on it

but like everybody can grab hold of this thing yeah not this time this time there's two other

episodes on the text that you can go listen to which i'm pretty sure came out before my episode yes

and so you're already equipped, dear listener, with what's reasonable.

And so I'm here to call us to just entertain the possibility, just entertain the provocation,

that it might just be something a little bit bigger or a little bit different or wilder than we

usually conceive.

That's all.

Okay.

That sounds great.

Well, good, because you have to listen to it.

Nobody else does, I guess, our audio engineer.

But we're going to start off by talking about this concept called spiral dynamics. Have you heard of spiral dynamics, Brent? I have.

Fantastic. If folks haven't, it's a way of organizing philosophies, worldviews, communities, value systems, social zeitgeists. The people who came up with it, their names are

cow and Beck. Beck used this to like work with Nelson Mandela and work on Palestinian and

...