#487 Ask the Expert - The Power of Influence and the Messenger Effect with Steve Martin

Squiggly Careers

The Squiggly Career

Management, Careers, Business

5 • 809 Ratings

🗓️ 8 July 2025

⏱️ 28 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

How do you make sure your message gets heard—and acted on? In this Squiggly Careers Ask the Expert episode, Helen speaks with author and influence expert Steve Martin about the powerful role of the messenger in communication.

Drawing on insights from his book Messengers, Steve explains how people respond differently depending on who delivers the message, and why understanding the difference between hard and soft messenger traits can transform your influence at work.

Together, they talk about how you can be more effective in meetings, remote settings, and team communication—plus how to match the right message to the right messenger for maximum impact.

⏱️ Timestamps

00:00 Welcome to the Squiggly Careers Podcast

01:00 Why the Messenger Matters as Much as the Message

04:40 Trust vs Truth: How We Really Decide Who to Listen To

07:20 Hard vs Soft Messengers (and When Each One Works Best)

13:15 The Kevin Keegan Story: Choosing the Right Messenger

15:20 Why Content Isn't Everything: Choosing the Right Voice

16:30 A Better Way to Start Meetings (That Builds Credibility)

20:00 The Role of Introductions in Empowering Messengers

21:15 Influence in Remote Work: Tips for Zoom & Teams

25:30 Mimicry and Mirroring: Small Shifts That Build Connection

29:08 Announcements

🎯 What You’ll Learn

- Why who delivers a message can be more important than what they say

- The difference between hard and soft messenger traits—and when to use each

- Practical ways to increase your influence in meetings and remote settings

- How to elevate others as effective messengers to get results as a team

📚 Resources Mentioned

Steve's Book, Messengers: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Messengers-Who-Listen-Dont-Why/dp/1847942350

Try Steve’s free quiz: https://www.influenceatwork.com/quiz/

Influence with Robert Cialdini: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d5VBsx-Rec

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi, it's Helen from the Squiggly Careers podcast. This is a weekly show where we talk about the ins,
0:08.4	the outs, the ups and occasional downs of work and try to give you some tips and tools to help you feel
0:13.9	in control and a bit more confident about your career development. Normally, this show is brought to you
0:19.0	by me and my co-host Sarah, but today we're doing something
0:22.0	slightly different. We've got one of our experts and we're going to talk about the topic of
0:25.9	influence. So over the next 30 minutes or so, you're going to hear me talk to author Steve Martin
0:31.2	and specifically we are going to focus on when you are influencing why the message and the messenger makes such a big
0:39.6	difference to how successful you are. This is based on Steve's book, Messengers. And I've known
0:44.6	Steve for a little while now, and I find his work very, very well researched and very, very
0:49.6	practical. So I think you're going to learn a lot from the conversation today. Some of the
0:53.6	things we talk about are why we need different messengers for different messages and also why things about hard and soft power make a difference to how we influence at work. So I'm going to let you listen and learn and I'll be back at the end to let you know what's coming up next on the squiggly careers podcast.
1:14.7	I'm very excited that we get to talk because I feel like we've been, you know, we've been talking around this topic for a while and influence is so important for people
1:19.0	to succeed in their squiggly careers, but I think sometimes it can feel a little bit uncomfortable,
1:24.3	like I don't know what to do. And I think your take on understanding
1:28.3	the messenger, as well as considering the message, which I think a lot of people prioritise,
1:33.8	is something that I know is going to be a really useful conversation for people today.
1:39.2	So why does differentiating the message, so what you want to say, from the messenger, so from who is saying it, why does that matter?
1:49.6	Why do we need to even make that distinction?
1:51.6	I kind of landed on this idea that it's a helpful shortcut.
1:56.5	You know, we live in a society in our business now where there's so many things that we do have to pay
2:01.4	attention to the challenge can sometimes be well what message do I listen to you know do I
2:08.7	believe this point of view do I look at this proposal do I think about this potential option
	...

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