4.4 • 856 Ratings
🗓️ 12 January 2026
⏱️ 119 minutes
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Today, we are pleased to present the live and unedited follow-up session with Madeleine, a loving mother who became terrified when she realized that her oldest beloved daughter might be in mortal danger during her hear abroad while in college.
We were a bit rushed near the end of M = Methods in Part 2 because of a mistake that I (David) made. I forgot that we had extended this webinar by 30 minutes, so we wouldn't be rushed at the end, so I wrongly concluded we were running out of time when we weren't!
In order to complete our work, we scheduled Part 3 several weeks later to do the following critical pieces of the work with Madeleine.
We did some cognitive flooding, urging Madeleine to close her eyes and describe her most terrifying fantasy involving her daughter's abduction by a sociopathy. We encourage her to make herself as anxious as possible, and within minutes she was at 100% and sobbing. Then we did some "memory" rescripting as we had promised her at the start, and part way through there was an unexpected surge of anger, that seemed to come from out of the blue, although the circumstances of the fantasy were clearly more than enough to trigger rage.
Using the technique called "Affect Bridging," I asker her whether the anger she was now feeling might trace back to some earlier traumatic event in her life, perhaps when she was young, and this was confirmed. She described a profoundly troubling indecent involve her mother and dad shortly before they got divorced.
There was a tremendous amount of emotion packed into today's follow-up session, almost non-stop, in fact. We look forward to seeing Madeleine's end-of-session Brief Mood Survey and Evaluation of Therapy Session. Jill and David assigned follow-up homework for her, including 15 minutes per day reading the terrifying article from People Magazine that had initially triggered her in the beauty salon.
We want to thank you, Madeleine for your courage in being so open and real, and for giving us all a unique opportunity for some incredible learning, and also the chance to get to know you at a deep a genuine level!
Thanks for listening to these three podcasts. We hope you enjoyed them and learned something useful and helpful, especially if you've also been struggling with feelings of depression and anxiety, or if you're a mental health professional wanting to take a deeper dive in to how TEAM CBT can sometimes produce extremely rapid healing, even from severe feelings of depression, anxiety, and despair.
Madeleine, Jill, Rhonda, and David
Following the session, Madeleine sent us the following feedback on the session via email:
Hi Jill and David,
Completed after session yesterday, but in my state of emotional fatigue, forgot to hit send!
Brief Mood Survey after session:
Depression: 3 / 20 (minimal)
Suicidal urges: 0 / 12 (none)
Anxiety: 8 / 20 (mildly elevated)
Anger: 9 / 20 (mild/moderately elevated)
Happiness: 12 / 20 (low)
Relationship Satisfaction: 29 / 30 (nearly perfect)
Evaluation of Therapy Session
Empathy: 20 / 20 (perfect score)
Helpfulness: 20 / 20 (perfect score)
Satisfaction: 8 / 8 (perfect score)
Commitment: 8 /8 (perfect score)
Neg feelings: 4 (high, range = 0- 4)
Difficulties with Q: 2 (medium, range = 0- 4)
What did you like the Least: exposure was pain. It feels very heavy and exhausting. And i understand, necessary to healing.
What did you like the Most: David's "bridging" my affect states to discover my rage source. Jill's keeping us on track and making connection from my present worry about daughter's safety to past feelings of betrayal, losing trust, and resulting anger in my dad, a trusted figure. You both hit the nail on the head so many times in the session to uncover the deeper, ugly, messy, dark pools that lie within me i choose to keep safely sealed tight and out of the light.
Postscript: I just completed day 1 of exposure in re reading the awful article. All the anxiety and fear resurfaced along with new feelings of revenge, determination, appreciation for the authors who are perhaps trying to help the family by publishing this. Ick.
Best Regards,
Madeleine
Again, a big thanks to you Madeleine, and we will watch closely as you continue your courageous daily exposure work, and look forward to the day when you have won this battle!
Warmly, david
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| 0:00.0 | Hello and welcome to the Feeling Good podcast, where you can learn powerful techniques |
| 0:11.6 | to change the way you feel. I am your host, Dr. Rhonda Borovsky, and joining me here in the |
| 0:16.8 | Murrieta studio is Dr. David Burns. Dr. Burns is a pioneer in the development of |
| 0:22.3 | cognitive behavioral therapy and the creator of the new team therapy. He's the author of Feeling |
| 0:27.4 | Good, which has sold over 5 million copies in the United States and has been translated into over 30 |
| 0:33.2 | languages. His latest book, Feeling Great, contains powerful new techniques that make rapid recovery |
| 0:39.3 | possible for many people struggling with depression and anxiety. Dr. Burns is currently an |
| 0:44.7 | emeritus adjunct professor of clinical psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine. |
| 0:51.2 | Hello, everybody, and Rhonda and all of our wonderful fans. Welcome to part three of the work with Madeline. |
| 1:02.5 | This is episode 484, and many weeks have passed since our initial work with Madeline. |
| 1:12.6 | But we needed, we wanted to do a follow-up session because we didn't have time to do a number of things, including cognitive flooding, cognitive exposure, and asking Madeline to confront her fears, the horrors that she fears the most, |
| 1:32.8 | and make herself as anxious as possible. And you're going to see that cognitive exposure, |
| 1:40.8 | among other fairly dramatic things in today's session. |
| 1:46.5 | And sometimes when people get extremely anxious and upset during a session, and of course, |
| 1:53.4 | I'm encouraging, and Jill is encouraging Madeline in this Part 3 follow-up session to make herself as anxious as possible, |
| 2:04.8 | not to control the anxiety, but she starts at 50 and then it goes to 80 and that goes to 90. |
| 2:10.9 | And I said, can you get it up to 95 and then to 100? |
| 2:14.9 | And she does all of that. |
| 2:16.9 | And she gets about as emotionally distraught as a human |
| 2:21.2 | being can be. And then all of a sudden, in the middle of all of this, she had asked us to do |
| 2:28.1 | some cognitive restructuring, some memory rescripting to change this horrifying scenario in her mind. |
| 2:38.7 | And we were doing some of that, and suddenly this intense anger jumped right into the picture. |
... |
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