#481 – Norman Ohler: Hitler, Nazis, Drugs, WW2, Blitzkrieg, LSD, MKUltra & CIA

Lex Fridman Podcast

Lex Fridman

Philosophy, Society & Culture, Science, Technology

4.7 • 13K Ratings

🗓️ 19 September 2025

⏱️ 271 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

Norman Ohler is a historian and author of "Blitzed: Drugs in the Third Reich," a book that investigates the role of psychoactive drugs, particularly stimulants such as methamphetamine, in the military history of World War II. It is a book that two legendary historians Ian Kershaw and Antony Beevor give very high praise for its depth of research. Norman also wrote "Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age", and he is working on a new book "Stoned Sapiens" looking at the history of human civilization through the lens of drugs.
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Transcript:
https://lexfridman.com/norman-ohler-transcript

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EPISODE LINKS:
Stoned Sapiens Substack: https://substack.com/@stonedsapiens
Norman's X: https://x.com/normanohler
Norman's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normanohler
Norman's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Norman-Ohler
Norman's Website: https://www.normanohler.de
Norman's books: https://amzn.to/46uNS18
Blitzed: https://amzn.to/4mmY2XC
The Bohemians: https://amzn.to/3KubPhK
Tripped: https://amzn.to/4nEy7eX

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OUTLINE:
(00:00) - Introduction
(01:09) - Sponsors, Comments, and Reflections
(09:00) - Drugs in post-WWI Germany
(19:18) - Nazi rise to power
(23:45) - Hitler's drug use
(29:37) - Response to historian criticism
(46:16) - Pervitin
(1:00:15) - Blitzkrieg and meth
(1:18:52) - Erwin Rommel (Crystal Fox)
(1:23:02) - Dunkirk
(1:31:06) - Hitler's drug addiction
(1:47:03) - Methamphetamine
(1:48:57) - Invasion of Soviet Union
(2:07:54) - Cocaine
(2:16:49) - Hitler's last days
(2:36:48) - German resistance against Nazis
(2:58:59) - Totalitarianism
(3:04:09) - Stoned Sapiens - Drugs in human history
(3:19:20) - Religion
(3:30:09) - LSD, CIA, and MKUltra
(3:55:39) - Writing on drugs
(4:08:40) - Berlin night clubs
(4:19:14) - Greatest book ever written

Transcript

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0:00.0	The following is a conversation with Norman Oler, author of Blitz, Drugs in the Third Reich,
0:07.0	a book that investigates what role psychoactive drugs, particularly stimulants, such as methamphetamine,
0:13.9	played in the military history of World War II. It is a book that two legendary historians,
0:19.8	Ian Kershaw and Anthony Beaver, give very high praise to.
0:24.1	Ian Kershaw describes it as very well-researched, serious piece of scholarship,
0:29.8	and Anthony Beaver describes it as remarkable work of research.
0:34.9	And it is indeed a remarkable work of research. Norman went deep into the archives,
0:40.3	using primary sources to uncover a perspective on Hitler and the Third Reich that is before this,
0:46.3	but mostly ignored by historians. He also wrote, tripped Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the dawn
0:53.3	of the psychedelic age,
0:54.9	and he's not working on a new book with the possible title of Stoned Sapiens.
1:01.5	Great title.
1:03.0	Looking at the history of human civilization through the lens of drugs.
1:08.7	And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor.
1:11.9	Check them out in the description or at lexfreyman.com.
1:15.3	sponsor.
1:16.5	It is, in fact, the best way to support this podcast.
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1:24.1	Finn for AI agents, Shopify for selling stuff online, Element for Electrolites, and Hampton, for connecting with CEOs. Choose wise and my friends. And now onto the full ad reads, I try to make them interesting, but if you skip, please still check out the sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too. Do you get in touch
1:44.6	with me for whatever reason? Go to Lexfreyman.com slash contact. All right. Let's go.
1:50.8	This episode is brought to you by Uplift Desk, my go-to for all office and podcast studio furniture.
1:57.9	This very podcast, ladies and gentlemen, had three desks,
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