481. Is the U.S. Really Less Corrupt Than China?

Freakonomics Radio

Freakonomics Radio + Stitcher

Society & Culture, Documentary

4.5 • 32.9K Ratings

🗓️ 4 November 2021

⏱️ 56 minutes

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Summary

A new book by an unorthodox political scientist argues that the two rivals have more in common than we’d like to admit. It’s just that most American corruption is essentially legal.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The best way to understand China's political system is that it is a corrupt meritocracy.
0:10.8	If I were to ask you to point to another corrupt meritocracy, maybe it's even one where you
0:17.1	and I are both located at the moment.
0:19.9	What would you say?
0:20.9	I think it's more complicated in this country.
0:24.6	Corruption in China is still of an illegal form.
0:28.6	Corruption in this country has become so legalized and institutionalized.
0:33.0	It's hard to say that it's corrupt.
0:36.2	Some people would be really offended by the word.
0:42.5	UNU and Aung is a professor of political science at the University of Michigan.
0:46.6	She recently published a book called China's Gilded Age, the paradox of economic boom and
0:53.3	vast corruption.
0:55.2	Her analysis is based on prosecutorial data, government compensation figures, news reports,
1:01.4	and her own interviews with more than 400 Chinese bureaucrats.
1:05.6	She's trying to answer several questions about corruption.
1:09.2	The main one is this.
1:10.8	How has an economy like China has been able to grow so large and so fast with such high
1:16.4	levels of corruption?
1:19.6	Economists usually point to corruption as an impediment to economic growth.
1:24.4	And corruption in China is famously high, at least according to rankings, like the one
1:29.2	from Transparency International, a German association that collects corruption data around
1:34.4	the world.
	...

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