Welcome back to your anxiety toolkit. Today we have the amazing Michelle Massey on. We are

talking about OCD core fears. This is a topic I don't talk about a lot. And whenever I know I can

find someone who can kill a topic way better than I can, I ask them on.

And luckily, this is my dear friend, Michelle.

I love this human being so freaking much.

So I'm so happy to have you here with us, Michelle.

Thank you for being here.

Thank you for inviting me on.

I always love chatting OCD.

I know.

Okay.

So Michelle and I were actually

on our way to vent or a spa or something we were doing together. And we were talking about

cases and we're always, of course, trying to get consultation and make sure that we're

addressing cases as best as we can. And Michelle started talking about core fears in a way that I

don't talk about it. It's not that I don't talk about it. It's just not in the way in which I do.

And I loved the way that you were talking about and I wanted everyone to come on and understand

why understanding your OCD core fear is so important. So again, thank you for being here.

I'm wondering if you could explain those who are new to this idea of what do we mean when we

talk about core fears in OCD? Yeah. So I'll actually back up and start with when I was first trained in treating OCD

like maybe like 20 years ago. It was really through the habituation model, right? And so we focused on

doing an exposure until a person's anxiety came down halfway at least and kept, you know,

...