It's time for episode 4663 of the Clockwise podcast from Relay FM recorded Wednesday, August 10th, 2022.

Clockwise. Four people. Four tech topics. 30 minutes. Welcome back to clockwise.

That's random never a clockwise.

Welcome back.

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I'm Jason Snell.

I'm going to do my best to ruin this podcast before Dan Warren gets back from paternity leave and across the table from me that's got a crack in it now because I think I broke it.

It's Micah Sargent.

Hi, Micah. Quickly, there's a scene in a bug's life where it's at the very beginning and a leaf falls down in the front of the path of the ants and they have to bring in a specialist to help them get around the leaf.

And I need a specialist because I don't know what's going on.

Well, that's okay. It's the podcast where we take 30 minutes and other than parts where we speak randomly, we go in a very strict order and talk about four technology topics with two wonderful guests.

To my left at this table, it is the co-host of the rebound and a writer of many funny things about Apple a lot of places.

And also co-host of Biff on the Incomparable Network, an excellent

podcast about superheroes that doesn't have its Dan this summer either. It's John Moles.

That's right. Yeah. Without Dan this summer, we're all, we're holding each other close.

Well, let me talk about the guests to my left. It's the founder of the heart of tech. It's

Carolina Milanese. Welcome back to the show, Carolina.

Thank you for having me. All right. Well, for topics, 30 minutes, two guests. You know the guests,

you don't know. The topics, that part is a surprise. Let's get started. I will kick us off.

I am taking my kid to college orientation, which is tomorrow. I'm packing today. So, and doing a podcast. So I, I thought about

this because I'm going to have to do my packing. And I know everybody has different devices and has

...