Brett McKay here and welcome to another edition of the Art of Malinus Podcast are great

leaders born or made. Do circumstances make great leaders or do great leaders change the

times? These are a few of the big picture questions my guest explores in her later

books her name is Doris Kerns Goodwin she's a Pulitzer Prize winning historian and in her

latest book leadership and turbulent times she explores the makings of great leaders by

looking at the biographies of four US presidents who led the country through periods of crisis.

As our Abraham Lincoln theater Roosevelt Franklin D. Roosevelt and Lyndon B. Johnson.

We begin a conversation discussing the ambition all four of these leaders had as young men

to do something great and how they connected their personal ambition to the greater good. We then

discussed the personal setbacks all of them experienced early in life and how these challenges influence

them as leaders. Doris then shares leadership traits and skills all them implemented during the

presentcies as well as how they did things differently and we under conversation discussing whether any

other leader could have managed the crisis each of these presidents confronted or if these men were

singly suited to the circumstances out of the shows over check out our show notes at a.o.m.

I.S. slash turbulent and Doris joins me now via Skype.

Doris Kerns Goodwin welcome to the show. I'm glad to be with you very much.

So you got a new book out leadership in turbulent times you basically it's basically like

for many biographies of four presidents get Abraham Lincoln theater Roosevelt Franklin Roosevelt

and Lyndon B. Johnson and you take a look at how they handled their respective tumultuous times.

So what criteria did you use to select these four for presidents?

Well I figured that I wanted to select the ones that I knew the best Abraham Lincoln,

Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt and LBJ all of whom did lead through times of turbulence but since

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