The Hello everybody I'm speaking today with Torr

who's a Danish author. I'm primarily interested in his work. He's written about 30 books. The book I know best is probably his most famous book called The user illusion.

I've been thinking a lot about consciousness lately, what would you say, a preoccupation of mine.

And a few decades ago I spent a lot of time reading books on consciousness.

The user illusion, Torinor Trandanders book, was the best one of the lot as far as I was concerned

and it taught me a lot.

And so I figured the other day that I'd reach out to him.

We haven't talked before.

And so that was what happened.

And I got a chance to investigate his thought more elaborately.

We talked a lot about consciousness as a reducing function, which is a very interesting way of conceptualizing it.

It's something akin to Eldis Huxley's speculations, although he elaborated it in much more detail and very usefully,

and also associated that with our ability to communicate verbally in a way that I think was in

keeping with the relevant neuropsychological literature and what we know about perception.

So Nortrenders hit the target very specifically and I thought it would be fun to talk to him about that

and to share that with all of you and so that's exactly what's going to happen.

So Mr. Nordtranders, I really became interested in your work because of the user illusion

which I read quite a long time ago probably about 10 years after you published it. I believe it was published in 1991.

In Danish, yes. I was...

I was...

Oh, okay, okay, so, I see, all right, so it probably would have been around 98 when I, when I read it,

I was quite interested in the in the psychology of

...