If you're holding seven and a half or eight percent mortgage debt right now, the next six months

could save or cost you thousands. So are rates finally dropping or are we stuck here for years?

Today I brought on Michael Zuber to help me answer that and to break down the three likely

scenarios with interest rates. Plus we talk about what real estate investors should do no

matter where interest rates go. Let's jump in. I like the idea of steel manning. Rates go higher, rates stay flat, or rates go down. And then maybe at the end, we can talk about what we think is most likely. But this should be a fun mental exercise. So where do you want to go first? Let's go up because I think that's a little, I think there's a hope in so many real estate

investors' minds.

It's going to either stay flat or it's going to go down at some point. And then I'm going to refinance. But break that, that illusion and say, well, maybe they're going to just keep going up. And we're going to have like 1980s style or something like that where it was up for a long time. Yeah. So, you know, I agree that this is certainly a possibility. And we don't

have to go back very far in history to see this inaction. If we just go back to September of

2024, we had a weak job number. We had an 818,000 job correction. The Fed freaked out and the Fed

delivered a 50 basis point cut to start a cutting

cycle that ultimately cut 100 basis points on the front end. But what happened on the long

end or mortgage rates is they went up roughly 100 points. And at the time, that broke people's

brains because we had been conditioned to believe if the Fed cuts, mortgage rates

go down.

But hopefully by now we all realize that that is not true.

The Fed only controls the overnight lending.

It is influenced up to the two-year, but the 10-year note, the 30-year mortg 30-year mortgages are controlled by, you know, the bond

market. It's much bigger than just the Fed. So, you know, there are a lot of things that could go

bad and have mortgage rates go up from here. For example, inflation could take hold. Next, we could see wage spiral inflation.

And now many people may not think that's bad, but you have to realize in a service-based

economy, wages are the largest contributor to costs for businesses.

So if we continue to see weak participation rate, we continue to see, you know, baby boomers retire, migration,

...