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The Jordan Harbinger Show

440: David Michaels | Dark Money and the Science of Deception

The Jordan Harbinger Show

Jordan Harbinger

Business, Education, Science

4.812.3K Ratings

🗓️ 1 December 2020

⏱️ 68 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

David Michaels (@drdavidmichaels) is an epidemiologist who served as the Assistant Secretary of Labor for OSHA from 2009 to 2017, Assistant Secretary of Energy for Environment, Safety, and Health from 1998 through January 2001, and is the author of The Triumph of Doubt: Dark Money and the Science of Deception.

What We Discuss with David Michaels:
  • Why bad science thrives and who most profits from its proliferation.
  • How seemingly solid data can be used to mislead and distract us in the guise of fact.
  • Why our flawed regulatory system can take decades to protect the public against dangers the industries benefitting from them know are risky.
  • What David means when he says: "There are two sides to every story, but there are not necessarily two valid sides to every story -- especially if one of them has been purchased at a high price."
  • What we can do to become more aware of these manipulations and resist their effects on our health, our children, and our trust in science itself.
  • And much more...

Full show notes and resources can be found here: jordanharbinger.com/440

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Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

Coming up on the Jordan Harbanger show.

0:02.4

Johnson Johnson the made Johnson's baby powder is their iconic product.

0:06.2

They announced they were going to stop selling baby powder made with talcum powder.

0:10.5

You know, this is probably sold for 100 years.

0:12.8

It's the symbol of the company and everybody knows the smell.

0:15.4

I mean, we all grew up with it.

0:16.6

We put on our kids.

0:18.0

Talc is a mineral.

0:20.1

It's almost always present with asbestos when it's in the mountain and it's

0:24.2

mined.

0:25.1

So it's very difficult to make talc without asbestos.

0:28.0

The FDA tried to take that on in the 70s and Johnson Johnson in the industry pushed

0:32.8

back very hard.

0:33.9

So the industry hired some of the same experts who worked for tobacco.

0:39.1

Now they're working for Johnson Johnson and the what they did was they said,

0:43.2

look, we've got to convince the scientists on a national toxicology program that

0:47.4

there's too much uncertainty.

0:49.7

One of them says here's our strategy.

0:51.6

Time to come up with more confusion and it was successful.

0:54.9

And so we had another 20 years where people had no idea that this baby powder

0:59.7

they were using had asbestos in it hiding the facts for manipulating the science.

1:09.2

Welcome to the show.

...

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